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#189116 - 11/24/09 07:18 PM Re: ...and a pot. [Re: T_Co]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Originally Posted By: T_Co

Are you going to be staying by your water source or have one available for the duration of your stay? That does not seem like enough especially if you would be exerting yourself.

T_Co, look at the Subject line. We're discussing pots, not water carrying containers.

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#189128 - 11/24/09 09:26 PM Re: ...and a pot. [Re: T_Co]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: T_Co

Are you going to be staying by your water source or have one available for the duration of your stay? That does not seem like enough especially if you would be exerting yourself.


Let me elaborate: The modified hip flask is not for water carrying - but melting snow and boiling water. It would boil about 2 dl (6-7 oz), which isn't very much - but it is small enough to stay on my person when my pack doesn't and far more reliable than any collapsible aluminium foil trick.

If I have my pack I have at least one water bottle and at least one cocking pot (or something to that effect). And - water availability is usually not a problem in my part of the woods.

ALEX: That is a very neat idea. I can't weld (though I know someone who does), and anyway 2 dl / 6-7 ounces is just to feeble amount to worry about carrying anyway - gulp it down and be happy smile For carrying more substantial amounts there's always the condome trick or the breast milk freezer bag trick.

One scenario that is important for me is melting snow. Adding snow to a narrow slot is painful and tedious. For this purpose I suggest that the flask opening has a shallow "U"-shape at one side (about 1-1.5 inch deep). This wider opening should make stuffing snow in there much easier, and you could also use the hip flask to scoop up snow directly.


Edited by MostlyHarmless (11/24/09 09:38 PM)

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#189144 - 11/25/09 12:58 AM Re: ...and a pot. [Re: MostlyHarmless]
fooman Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 78
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
Originally Posted By: fooman
I'm using the GI 'Artic' canteen cup as part of a kit.


That cup seems (almost) just the right shape and size - and I REALLY like your kit! smile

I'm assuming that AMK bag is some bivy bag or similar - what kind and what size?


Glad you guys like it. Its something I put together one lazy afternoon with stuff I already had, and I suspect most of us already have lying around the house. haha.

I actually bought the cup and pouch at the same time off ebay but it didn't occur to me that it would fit until some time later.

Yes, its the AMK Emergency Bivvy Bag, which is the bag version of the Heatsheets emergency blanket.
Heatsheets Emergency Bivvy
Weight: 3.5oz
Size: 36" x 84"

I haven't weighed it but I'd say the size and weight of kit and the hard cup make it pretty uncomfortable to carry in a pocket.

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#189170 - 11/25/09 06:10 AM Re: ...and a pot. [Re: MostlyHarmless]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
One scenario that is important for me is melting snow. Adding snow to a narrow slot is painful and tedious. For this purpose I suggest that the flask opening has a shallow "U"-shape at one side (about 1-1.5 inch deep). This wider opening should make stuffing snow in there much easier, and you could also use the hip flask to scoop up snow directly.

It seems to me, that will just lower the volume of the flask. You should be able to scoop the snow perfectly as is, with flat opening. AFAIK, air easily pass through the not compacted snow (correct me if I'm wrong), so all you need is to drive the flask into a clean patch of snow, mouth first, and it will be efficiently filled.

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#189172 - 11/25/09 07:18 AM Re: ...and a pot. [Re: Alex]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Alex
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
One scenario that is important for me is melting snow. Adding snow to a narrow slot is painful and tedious. For this purpose I suggest that the flask opening has a shallow "U"-shape at one side (about 1-1.5 inch deep). This wider opening should make stuffing snow in there much easier, and you could also use the hip flask to scoop up snow directly.

It seems to me, that will just lower the volume of the flask. You should be able to scoop the snow perfectly as is, with flat opening. AFAIK, air easily pass through the not compacted snow (correct me if I'm wrong), so all you need is to drive the flask into a clean patch of snow, mouth first, and it will be efficiently filled.


No, it wouldn't. Snow is fluffy stuff: Out of 10 pints of new fresh powdery snow you make about 1 pint of water. Very hard, old snow the ratio is perhaps down to 5 : 1. Just driving the flask into the snow will gain you perhaps 0.5 oz of water, hardly anything at all.

You need to cram it, stuff it and compress it to get a noticeable amount of water in there. Melting snow is extremely tedious because of this. Sacrificing 1 oz of effective volume to gain a much wider mouth opening seems to me a very good compromise.

There's of course some tricks of the trade involved in snow melting. Starting out with a little bit of water, adding more snow so you don't have powdery snow, but some slushy water/snow mix is most efficient. You want as big a pot with as big an opening as possible. Melting snow in that cute little hip flask will be tedious to the extreme, to say the least.

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#189182 - 11/25/09 02:06 PM Re: ...and a pot. [Re: MostlyHarmless]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6612
Loc: southern Cal
Not only tedious, but also doubles (or more) your fuel consumption. Something to consider.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#189197 - 11/25/09 05:15 PM Re: ...and a pot. [Re: hikermor]
LCranston Offline
2
Member

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 172
Loc: Nebraska
My boss just handed me 2 empty can/bottles of "Venom Energy Drink"

Link to picture of the Can.

http://energyfanatics.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/venom_energy_black.jpg

16.9 Oz Can/Bottle that I cannot crush with one hand. Top is like a soda bottle, but nearly the size of a Gatorade lid. It does not appear to be lined.

It might make a very cheap, reasonable size pot...

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#189199 - 11/25/09 05:19 PM Re: ...and a pot. [Re: hikermor]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 899
Loc: NW NJ
Fear not, citizens! Just last night I tested what may be the ultimate pack-flat PSK water boiling container.

Turns out they make stainless steel foil pouches for protecting metal parts during heat treating. While only .002" thick, it is very tough material that blows away aluminum foil or baking pans. They are made from two pieces of foil seam welded along three sides.

I tried the smallest one available from McMaster-Carr: 2.5"x5". When puffed out it held just over 1/4 cup of water - a little too small. The next size up is 4"x6" which would be more practical.

The near-fatal downside is that the edges are razor sharp. The last thing you need in an emergency is to slice all your fingers open, especially because we have to assume you're down to just your PSK. I'll experiment with rolling the edges over to make it safe.

I used a pin to poke a hole in either corner near the open end and added a bail made from stainless snare wire. This is essential for hanging it over the fire. Within seconds of taking it out of the flames, you can hold it by the edges with your bare hands.

Another essential companion is a container for cooling and storage. Probably a plastic bag - if you had room for a rigid container you have room for a real cup too.

I'll take some photos over the weekend.
_________________________
- Tom S.
Mora Knives & Adventurer Series Survival Gear

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#189200 - 11/25/09 05:35 PM Re: ...and a pot. [Re: MostlyHarmless]
T_Co Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 184
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
Originally Posted By: Alex
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
One scenario that is important for me is melting snow. Adding snow to a narrow slot is painful and tedious. For this purpose I suggest that the flask opening has a shallow "U"-shape at one side (about 1-1.5 inch deep). This wider opening should make stuffing snow in there much easier, and you could also use the hip flask to scoop up snow directly.

It seems to me, that will just lower the volume of the flask. You should be able to scoop the snow perfectly as is, with flat opening. AFAIK, air easily pass through the not compacted snow (correct me if I'm wrong), so all you need is to drive the flask into a clean patch of snow, mouth first, and it will be efficiently filled.


No, it wouldn't. Snow is fluffy stuff: Out of 10 pints of new fresh powdery snow you make about 1 pint of water. Very hard, old snow the ratio is perhaps down to 5 : 1. Just driving the flask into the snow will gain you perhaps 0.5 oz of water, hardly anything at all.

You need to cram it, stuff it and compress it to get a noticeable amount of water in there. Melting snow is extremely tedious because of this. Sacrificing 1 oz of effective volume to gain a much wider mouth opening seems to me a very good compromise.

There's of course some tricks of the trade involved in snow melting. Starting out with a little bit of water, adding more snow so you don't have powdery snow, but some slushy water/snow mix is most efficient. You want as big a pot with as big an opening as possible. Melting snow in that cute little hip flask will be tedious to the extreme, to say the least.

I think he meant FILLED with snow, not water

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#189204 - 11/25/09 06:07 PM Re: ...and a pot. [Re: hikermor]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Not only tedious, but also doubles (or more) your fuel consumption. Something to consider.
Not necessarily true. The flask is flat, so the snow insulation properties will be lower. The overall volume is small too, so you can use body heat to melt the snow (That's one of the reasons I want to keep the water tight flask function, which is near to impossible with a not straight line mouth shape).

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