lol

He's actually not half bad, just not as young as he used to be, I suppose. Hence the comment about military age males being dangerous opponents.



Yes, that is correct. The teen got away unscathed.

With all the pacifism in this thread, I feel like I have to make something clear:

I don't do self defense because I think it'll allow me to beat up bullies. It very much goes without saying that any mature person will go out of their way to avoid physical conflict, even if it means losing face. In fact, anyone I know will tell you I'm a kind and gentle person in real life, far beyond what is usually expected of a guy my age.

There are a number of reasons for my continued self-abuse attendance of classes:

1. Israel outlawed guns and knives (wisely, for those familiar with the local tempers), but some of us still don't like to live at the mercy of the nearest alpha male. When a guy's in my face for whatever reason, I don't want "run" and "die" to be my only two options. That is something I might have been willing to accept as a female, but for better or worse, it is not the case.

2. These days, niceness is often confused with weakness. Not that I'm afraid people will perceive me as weak - they still do. No amount of training, guns or mutant powers is going to change your personality and the way people see you. No, I'm referring to the fact people are often considered "good" when in reality, they're just impotent assholes. One can only be truly "good" if they consistently make a choice to remain harmless given other options.

I am a pacifist and avoid violence if it is at all possible.
One of the reasons is that I kept breaking my knuckles when I fought.

My dad always taught me when little boys fight the worst thing that happens is a bloody nose or busted lip.

When men fight, often someone dies (intended or not).

The message he was trying to drum in my head is that if I choose to fight as a man, make damn sure it's worth killing (and going to prison for) or dying for...

My wife and child are pretty much the only things that fit that bill.

It is stupid to get into a street fight ... for reasons of pride, ego, anger or aggression.

But it is not stupid to engage in self-protection.
And it may be vital to save your life.

If you are BOLD and you choose to fight back to protect yourself, then clearly you need to train purposefully to do this. It can't be done in half-measures - which was the point of my earlier post. You need to have a plan and the skills to back it up. Even so, you could still be seriously injured or killed. Conflict is always unpredictable.

If you are CAUTIOUS, that approach can also be successful. Your goal is to avoid a fight, avoid dangerous places, and avoid aggressive people. You need to have a plan too, and the right measures to keep bad people away ... good locks on your doors and gates, very good lighting around your home, a guard dog or a good alarm system. Friends who are close by. A reliable phone.

The trouble with any of these approaches is twofold:

1. Most people don't give quite enough attention to whatever system they adopt. People who train to fight back - are not usually ready for the real violence when it happens. People who decide to be cautious - are not able to keep their guard up and maintain a high level of alertness over the long term. Most of the population falls into the "maybe prepared" category somewhere in the middle - and is therefore is vulnerable. Criminals expect this.

2. Criminals are intelligent predators. They are not stupid, or "misunderstood persons". They team up because that increases their chances of success. You may plan to run away - but some of the gang members may block your escape. You may plan to have "situational alertness" but someone may distract you - while his buddy takes you from behind. You may plan to call 911 on your cell phone ... but someone may knock it from your hand.

Forget about lawyers and "lawyer frenzy". That will make your mind weak. You need to focus on your plan and execute it. The lawyers can wait for tomorrow. You don't have that long.

Pete

Speaking as a female, dying is still not an acceptable option.

Jeanette Isabelle

Heheh. Not "dying", but outsourcing my defensive needs to other people. To each their own, of course.

If your fear of lawyer frenzy distracts you from what you are doing, then chances are that it isn't self defense anyway.

The choice of using violence to protect yourself should be a rational choice: You don't do it unless you really have to. If you HAVE TO do it, then do whatever it takes with full force and no hesitation. See the recent "shooting aftermath" thread on this forum, it is highly relevant - after all, you're using your body as an instrument to cause grievous bodily harm and possibly death to an attacker. (This will be one end of the spectrum, the other extreme possibly being doing stuff like throw your wallet in his face, kick him in the knee and run).




As for your two methods, applying every possibly trick, skill and method to detect, avoid or weasel your way out of danger does not exclude the possibility of physically defending yourself. In fact, if you've explored all the other options you KNOW there is no other alternative - and that will fuel your determination. You'd better fight like a cornered animal, because there is no other way out.

As a positive side effect, you also have just proved to the law that this is in fact a justifiable self defense situation.

Oh, and do mentally prepare yourself to run away at first opportunity. Staying means you have to incapacitate your opponents (if not, they'll recover and take you out), and that is a) messy, b) locks very bad in court. Create a window of opportunity, then RUN.



You're right that if you're confronted it will be by someone who thinks they can take you out. It doesn't matter how strong or fit you are - they are MUCH better at judging your capacity for violence than you'll ever be. In that sense, we're all in your "somewhat prepared" group. I know I am "somewhat prepared" - I'm not really cut for martial arts (though I love the training, you can't change genetics). That doesn't mean I'm willing to lie down and give up.


My mental preparation is that I focus on getting away, no matter what it takes. Someone robs me, I comply and walk away, alive and unhurt. Someone bullies me, I weasel and sweet-talk myself out of it and walk away. I don't like the look of that gang in the parking lot, I walk away. I'm cornered and can't get away, can't sweet-talk myself out of it, can't bribe them with my wallet - THEN I literally run over whoever blocks my exit. Getting away from danger can be a whole-hearted, 100% commitment, and you use whatever means necessary, including ruthless violence.


I don't think I can devote the same determination to just "defending myself...", the idea being that I beat the offender(s) to a pulp and remain last man standing, waiting for the police and lots of beautiful babes to arrive and applaud me, the hero. I don't believe in that scenario, and can't commit myself to it. But getting away - I can and will commit myself to that.

In the future, and given the state of how technology is developing, I see the use of personal "drones" as a means of complex self defense, let me elaborate:

As electro-mechanical technology continues to minaturize, while the complexity continues to increase, building semi-autonomous platforms that provide enhanced surveillance measures and some means of deterrence along with a little AI will provide individuals with advanced warning of a potential threat, as well as an indirect means of neutralizing an attack. Imagine one of these new RC helicopters, like the ones you see flitting around in the malls these days, only equipped with a sub mini video transmitter bluetoothed to your pda. Imagine what could be put on such a platform that would help in keeping you safe and dealing with potential BGs.

Based on what I saw in Iraq, a lot of the tech is already available, and it's just waiting for someone to put it together in a non-lethal package and market it to individuals with a need, or a perceived need, for such a thing.

When it comes to public confrontations, I think it would be a great advantage for any would be assailant to wonder where the counterattack will come from, and in what form. If he's focused on me and takes a pepper spray hit from above from the drone, then that can give me a huge advantage in either escaping the confrontation, or engaging the assailant more on my terms.

Of course, once this tech gets deployed, it will be a short time until BGs figure out how to use it as aggressors.

Then it will really be a matter of who has the best toys, as the Joker would say.

Wouldn't one of these on the end on a leash be more of a deterrent (would of course need a mounted Laser though like one of these. )

Night-hiker: What I was trying to get across in my earlier comment is that there are alternatives to suit different personalities, and not just the "you must fight back" mode as the only option.

Let's make a quick analogy ... if you will permit me. Imagine a situation where you're driving down the road in your car and a ground squirrel decides to go out onto the road. A BOLD squirrel will survive - because it's fast and there's no hesitation. A CAUTIOUS squirrel will also survive because it comes to a halt at the edge of the asphalt and decide it's too dangerous to proceed. BUT the squirrels that get part-way across the road, then get consumed by fear & confusion - and then hesitate and reverse directions - are the ones who go SPLAT! People can be the same way.

Jeanette: Speaking as a guy - I can say that "dying" isn't a really great option for me either. Besides, I've heard that it's super-hard to pay the mortgage and drink a Corona once you heatbeat and respirations go well below one per minute(!).

But here's something I want you to know. I train women in basic self-defense before taking them overseas. Women CAN become excellent fighters - they just have different "triggers" than men. There is nothing wrong with your inner voice that tells you to stay alive - it's actually a big advantage. Women can be very good at self-defense precisely because they don't take excessive risks (whereas guys can exhibit dangerous risk taking behaviors). However, if that inner voice tells to to always fear conflict then you could be putting yourself in greater danger. Sometimes there is no choice and you just have to know how to respond. The great thing is that in America you have a tremendous number of choices available to you ... self-defense training, alarm systems, self-defense products, firearms, phones and communication devices, and probably a good police station in your town. Something in that mix ought to work for you.

Pete