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#187697 - 11/06/09 04:42 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Tyber]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Benjammin = Brilliant
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.

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#187709 - 11/06/09 06:53 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: comms]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
Wow. Just can't see ever doing something like that. I've had to put animals down before. Definitely didn't enjoy it and took some solace in that it had to be done and they did not suffer.

I would have to believe that any qualified vet could figure out what happened to the animal's eyes pretty quickly and if the use of the laser was able to be tied back to you, the cruelty to animals charge is not far away. Not to mention that once the press gets word of it, one of Bill O'Reilly's nerdy producers will prevent you from ever shopping for groceries in peace ever again.

Putting down a dangerous animal to avoid serious injury is one thing. Consigning an animal to live in fear and darkness until someone puts it out of its misery is not in my being, no matter what it has done.

As always, YMMV. No flames intended, just my point of view.

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#187710 - 11/06/09 07:10 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: celler]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4457
Loc: SOCAL
I agree. If the dog is bad enough that you would consider blinding it, it should be euthanized -- or shot. Blinding a dog is just mean.

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#187714 - 11/06/09 07:33 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Russ]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1890
Loc: Washington, DC

This thread has gotten gruesome.

Dogs are the responsibility of their owners. They wouldn't be loose but for their owners. They wouldn't be vicious but for their owners.

Go after the owners, directly. If you go after the owner through their dog then you may bite off more than you can chew.

There are non-lethal, non-maiming ways of protecting against the dogs.





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#187717 - 11/06/09 08:36 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Dagny]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4457
Loc: SOCAL
Unfortunately, we can't just shoot the owners and if LE is stretched too thin or animal control fails to respond, options can be reduced. The only dogs I'm personally concerned with are those referred to as red-zone dogs.

Interestingly, dogs trained in Schutzhund are typically very safe around people because one of the tests prior to training is for temperament and obedience.
Quote:
"The B tests basic obedience and sureness around strange people, strange dogs, traffic, and loud noises. A dog that exhibits excessive fear, distractibility, or aggression cannot pass the B and so cannot go on to schutzhund.
. . . A dog that shows fear, lack of control, or inappropriate aggression is dismissed. . . ."
I've had a Schutzhund 1 GSD in my face and all I can say is he was a nice dog and would have made a great companion -- fast (I mean really fast) and strong, but in a good way. I could have taken him home for $5K cool but my roommie would have blown a gasket.

A Rottweiler titled in Schutzhund would be a good dog to walk the woods. It wouldn't make the dog any stronger or bite harder, but the control and temperament that goes with the title would mean a lot. Power means nothing without control.


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#187719 - 11/06/09 09:19 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Russ]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
The dog I am dealing with is not a mean dog, but he is jumping the fence and killing my chickens. They have a hotwire and keep turning it off. This has been going on for a year.

These people are white trash who bought three poor-quality English Mastiff pups from puppy mills so they could become a puppy mill themselves. The dogs are just breeding machines. They have had no training, they are not pets. They aren't bathed, they aren't played with, they get virtually no attention, the yard reeks from the huge poops. I've climbed over the fence to put water in their bucket on a warm day, I've collected newborn puppies from the wet grass in the rain where the male was dropping them immediately after birth, and put them in a crate with a heating pad until the owners got home. I can't walk them home because they have never seen a leash.

I've called Animal Services half a dozen times. The cops have been out three times. They said I have the right to kill them, esp since I am in an agricultural area. The big male charged the deputy and slammed the fence, and almost got shot right then.

I don't want to kill the dog, because the problem comes from the owners. But talking to them doesn't work. Sending the cops doesn't work. A deputy insisted that Animal Services pick up the dog a couple of weeks ago, but the owners bailed it out.

The next step is white fast-drying spray paint on the brindle haircoat. The last step is lead.

There is no cure for stupid.

Sue

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#187724 - 11/06/09 09:50 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Susan]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
That is a miserable situation you describe. The loss of livestock pretty much puts you in the right for whatever you must do. A lot of ranchers in your position fight fire with fire with their on trained dog.

I think I would first try the pepper spray and hope for some good cross-contamination to the owners. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you well.

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#187726 - 11/06/09 09:58 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: celler]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"I think I would first try the pepper spray and hope for some good cross-contamination to the owners."

If the dog was a housedog, or if they had to transport it in the car, I would do it. As it is, they would just shrug and walk away, because the comfort of the dog doesn't matter to them.

Sue

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#187727 - 11/06/09 10:11 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Susan]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
p.s. on pepper spray and dogs.

I posted a question on a dog site I visit, and asked if anyone knew how a dog acted after being pepper-sprayed. I faintly remember some article from many years ago that indicated that once a dog was sprayed, he became more aggressive.

The two best responses:

"I have been an Animal Control Officer for over 20 years. Yep, have sprayed a few dogs, and for the few I encounter again, even years later they do not come anywhere near me. Most of the time I can just squirt near the dog's face and drive them off. The one or two I have had to give a full face spray have immediately taken off, snorting and rubbing in the grass (or, in one case, the owner's couch....I got some unholy glee from that!)."

"When I lived in Oregon I got tired of my dogs being attacked while we were out walking, it didn't matter which direction we went someone had a loose dog that would come out and either threaten/rush us, or actually attack. I started carrying pepper spray and I used it on more then one dog. After that when we'd go for a walk the dog would come tearing out of it's yard like usual, take one look at who it was, and head back into their yard. The really bold ones would follow us at a safe distance, none ever came to close again or tried a second attack."

They also mentioned the use of a silent dog whistle as a deterrent, but responses were varied.

Sue

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#187740 - 11/07/09 12:18 AM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Susan]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1473
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Sue, sounds like the perfect setting for one of those animal reality shows. Isn't there a show with some burly biker guys going around saving abused animals? Might be worth it to send the producers an email and maybe a photo or two. Why not?

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