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#187438 - 11/04/09 03:50 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Blast]
cedfire Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
Another vote on top of the pile for bear-strength pepper spray. That would get their attention fast. If no luck with that, lethal force all the way.

I've been bitten by an unfriendly dog, had dogs run up to me off leash on various trails, been chased by dogs as a kid, and I am still a dog lover. I have had two German Shepherds, one of which was an adoption from the humane society, another was adopted from an owner who could no longer have the dog. Both dogs had been mistreated and/or neglected. They both needed socialization, patience, and training.

In the end it's all on the owner's shoulders. If this lady can't train and handle two big Rotts she has no business with them as her pets. There are no bad dogs, just bad owners.

FWIW, I think you did a hell of a job. Everyone went home unharmed, but maybe a little shaken up. Big thumbs up. cool

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#187443 - 11/04/09 04:09 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: NightHiker]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3561
Loc: Spring, Texas
Quote:
chicks dig big, rugged guys who demonstrate that they're willing to go into harms way for their safety.


Alas, she was a walking stereotype of a college-age vegan chick: Pierced, unwashed, and overly furry... sick In her defense though she wasn't the one who commented on my NRA sticker.

-Blast
_________________________
Blogging the Borderlands
Wild Edibles Blog
I miss OBG.

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#187455 - 11/04/09 05:01 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Blast]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Oklahoma
Dangit Blast. There's one more mental picture I could have done without. frown
_________________________
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

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#187456 - 11/04/09 05:06 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Blast]
ratbert42 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 178
Loc: Florida
I've never had a good outcome from trying to get law enforcement or animal control to deal with a dog. I generally get the answer that they can't do anything until it actually bites someone.

I've heard that a shot of lemon juice in the face generally chases them off, but haven't tested that. I've been meaning to get some fresh pepper spray for a long time, but every grocery store sells those plastic squeezy lemon juices.

So far I've been able to out-alpha every dog I've come across. I just get big, aggressive, and bark right back at them. Some day maybe that won't be enough, but it's worked so far. It helps that I'm not exactly roaming the toughest streets in town.

Any response beyond that would probably end up causing more trouble for me than it's worth. Unfortunately, I've pretty much had to adopt a "wait until they bite" approach too.

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#187539 - 11/05/09 06:54 AM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: NightHiker]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
I've found that plain water with a dose of sudsy ammonia added is a strong deterrent. Most animals hate ammonia and the small amount of detergent allows the mix to soak into fur instead off just rolling off. And they can't stand to lick themselves clean with the mix in their fur.

Second, if you have time, a little space and the presence of mind you might try throwing things at the dog/s. Dogs get quite alarmed when they get by even small stones. For some reason they can't easily connect the pain of the stone to your throwing it. Hit a dog with a stick and they often fight you. Hit it with even a small rock and they often look like they are very confused. Like they can't connect the sting to any source.

I have been told that pets are legally just property. You have a right to protect yourself from harm that may come from runaway property. Kill a dog in self defense and as I understand it your usually on sound legal ground as long as you had a reasonable reason to fear bodily harm.

But after the fact, because the animal is property, the law is much more restrained about having the animal put down.

It is something like if your neighbors car was left on a hill and it started rolling toward a playground full of kids. You have every right, possibly a moral duty to do whatever you can to prevent potential bodily harm. So if you drive you trusty bulldozer into its path your justified even if the car is destroyed. On the other hand if the car wasn't stopped, even if it ran over a kid or two, the state wouldn't demand that car be destroyed. Destroying the car after the fact won't undo the damage.

Usually there has to be a clear pattern of violence from the dog and usually some remedial attempted taken before the courts deprive someone of their property.




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#187556 - 11/05/09 02:51 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Blast]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
You did very well, amigo.

From a self defense perspective (in this case extending to your class as well), you used "necessary force" to control the situation. The staff was effective in keeping them from escalating their attack. Had they pressed you harder, then perhaps drawing the gun might've been necessary.

I certainly would've given the owner a lot of grief. I would also be on the phone to 911 immediately after to report the incident. Too bad you didn't get pictures of the incident. The owner should lose her dogs now, before she or someone else gets seriously hurt. She's demonstrated an obvious indifference/incompetence in proper handling in public, and her reiteration of the violation only reinforces her willful disregard for the safety of her dogs and other people. Had it been me, the outcome would likely have been two dogs in the vet hospital and one big human in the ER.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#187575 - 11/05/09 04:46 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: benjammin]
Mike_in_NKY Offline
Member

Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 121
Loc: KY
For the betterment of the world it would have been nice if the dogs could be given to a better owner and you could have just shot the current owner crazy

I'm just kidding! I think Benjamin summed it up the best.

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#187587 - 11/05/09 05:46 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Mike_in_NKY]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3561
Loc: Spring, Texas
I've been trying to get someone at the sheriff's office to take a report but they don't seem very interested/cooperative. The fact that I don't have any identity information on the lady doesn't help. :-( Hopefully (!) I'll encounter her again out there, this time with a clearer mind as to what to do.

Thanks for all the positive feedback!

-Blast
_________________________
Blogging the Borderlands
Wild Edibles Blog
I miss OBG.

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#187608 - 11/05/09 09:49 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: ]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"I've been trying to get someone at the sheriff's office to take a report but they don't seem very interested/cooperative."

I've been having problems with the neighbor's dog for several months.

I called Animal Services. They said it's not their problem. They said to call the Sheriff's Dept.

I called the Sheriff's Dept. They said it's not their problem. They said to call Animal Services.

What they're REALLY saying is "So take care of it yourself", isn't it?

Next step, a borrowed pistol and a .38 hollow point.

BTW, I asked my vet yesterday for the best way to shoot a dog in the head. He said between the eyes is the WORST spot, as the skull is thicker there than anywhere else.

He said it depends on how close you are willing/able to get to the dog.

From a distance, try to shoot behind the eye socket but in front of the ear.

If you can get close, esp with a larger dog, put the muzzle of the gun on top of the dog's head and shoot straight down.

He said not to shoot my foot on the second method, expect splatter, and be aware of where the bullet is going if you shoot from the side.

It all seemed like good advice to me.

Sue

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#187623 - 11/05/09 11:27 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Susan]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
If you really want to escalate a bad neighbor situation from passive aggressive to potentially violent, shooting his dog is likely the best way to do it. I assume that attempts at direct communication have not been successful. Have you spoken with your attorney to see what civil remedies might be available to you? Sometimes a strongly-worded letter from an attorney can work wonders and is not as costly as replacing the broken windows and repainting the garage door to cover the graffiti.

I have been shooting since I was 8 years old, qualified as a master sharpshooter while a LEO, and still hit the range as much as I can. I would not be able to hit a dog "behind the eye socket but in front of the ear" while being charged.

YMMV.

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