OK, here's the spinoff thread.

The question is, how do we attract new volunteers to staff our volunteer fire / EMS / or other agencies? Having a prepared community certainly helps if you have a personal emergency!

For those of you who volunteer, why? What got you to take the initial step? What could your agency do to make your service easier?

For those of you who live in an area served by volunteer emergency services who do not volunteer, why not? What would get you to do so? What would your biggest concern be?

Let's have an open discussion and see if we can't come up with any ideas on how to bring some new blood into the volunteer emergency services. The national trends are that the volunteer are getting older and harder to find, and if trends continue, the long tradition of volunteer service may die out.

I look forward to your thoughts.

How do you volunteer when you have a full-time job? Unless it's your own business, most employers frown on people just jumping up and running out the door.

Unemployed? Probably the last thing you really need is to work w/o getting paid.

Independently wealthy? Like most would want to?

If bureaucrats were better at budgeting, those crucial people in fire and EMT could be paid for the very important job they do. I would suspect that every bureaucrat/politician lives in an area of paid fire/EMTs, not volunteer.

Around here, we have volunteer. The rules: For EMTs, they'll be there in two minutes; for fire, back off and call your insurance company.

Funny, though, all the towns around here seem to be able to get 4.5 million to keep installing unnecessary and unwanted roundabouts.

Sue

Employers are usually pretty understanding and supportive of volunteer fire/ems. My cousin was in a small town in Maryland and all the employers were very supportive of the VFD and would help out in any way they needed. You have to remember that if the town ever hired paid emt/firefighters they would probably raise taxes to do so. So the employer gets less taxes in a volunteer area for one thing. They you can almost advertise having an EMT/firefighter on staff.

One of the huge issues - when jobs were local, people Could "jump" when called

I'll use Marty for an example - He lives in Bucks PA, and works a lot in NYC - even if he wanted to, he couldn't respond

It's a HUGE issue. I know a lot of Vols/former vols (aged out/Med out) who had the issue of working 90+ minutes from home. Doesn't leave a lot of responders during the day

In Maryland, we have a number of financial incentives to attract and retain volunteers. The state has a program of providing volunteers who meet certain criteria (a minimum number of hours consisting of a combination of training, running calls and fund raising) to receive a $600 state income tax credit. Locally, we have Length of Service Program (LOSAP) which using the state criteria for participation will provide a small pension for 20 years of service. Since the county considers us employees for workman’s compensation purposes, it makes us eligible for the same educational reimbursement program benefit as the career staff. The county has also examined exempting all or a portion of the local fire tax to volunteers, although due to the tough economic situation (reduced tax base) is very low on the priority list.

Although these incentives exist, the vast number of volunteers do so because it is either in their blood to be involved in their community and/or a family tradition.

My squad is the primary EMS response in our town from 6pm to 6am, Monday - Friday, and 24 hours/day on Weekends. During the work week, we cannot be assured of getting a crew out and we go dual response with the paid crew from one town over. Needless to say, if our squad does not get out during the week, you are waiting considerably longer for help to get there, but there's not much we can do about it - too many people commute into NYC for work.

New York State provides a $200 income tax credit each year that you have served for a full year with either volunteer fire, EMS, or police auxiliary. There is a LOSAP program as well, but it is only available to firefighters, not dedicated EMS folk like me. There is talk of providing free tuition to Nassau Community College for volunteers, but that's running into budgetary issues, so who knows if it will happen.

Since I grew up in Bay Shore, I have some familiarity with LI and know that like in many areas Fire will look down or want nothing to do with EMS. I think your best bet is to contact other EMS Departments to form a united front and contact local and state officials to lobby for similar benefits.

While not a long-term solution, you may want to see if there would be interest in developing a Fire/EMS cadet program in the high school career program (I think it is still called B.O.C.E.S – Board of Cooperative Educational Services on LI). We have a program here in Frederick and it supplies a small but dedicated core of younger individuals. While the primary goal is to have a potential Fire/EMS career, we find that most belong or join local Fire Companies. They come out of the program with FF I, EMT-B and HazMat Ops. Also check out college students enrolled in pre-med programs, who may want the experience to place on their applications.

Pete

I really can't give you any tips on what to do, because I have the very same problem.

I am in charge of a regional search and rescue team, and when there are no searches, people get bored and lose interest. When they've gone through most of the training, they are not interested in monthly meetings. I'm telling you, i'm just about to pull the plug, members don't even care to show up on searches anymore. There are many reasons for this lack of motivation, such as personal issues, political issues, the fact that police do most of the work now and don't call volunteers soon enough, etc.

Sometimes it's just not worth the effort. Just a thought.

$600 tax credit???

$200 tax credit???

How about a $10,000 credit? One set of useless roundabouts would give incentive to 450 prospective volunteers.

Sue

When the people want things like EMS, Fire protection, SAR, etc. enough to pay for it, it will appear.

Relying on volunteers to provide professional services has never been a very sound plan. Pay the people, cut down on the millions of dollars wasted on frivolous equipment and you'll have what people need.

Any community that's not willing to pony up for professional EMS and Fire protection, pretty much get what they deserve.

I'm not in any way knocking the efforts of the volunteers, my point is that you and your communities shouldn't have to rely on your volunteer efforts in the first place.

When I had my fire a couple of years ago, three volunteer fire companies responded, maybe 15 responders total, at 3am in the snow, and they were good at what they did. I couldn't have asked for better. Neighboring Troy, with a professional department, has trouble with staffing because of budget cuts. Throwing money at the problem isn't a solution, in part because there's no money to throw at the problem.

I also work as part of a volunteer amateur radio group. We face the same issues with attracting and keeping volunteers. It's tough, and it's frustrating. I've been reading along looking for ideas.

I would beg to differ http://www.rnli.org.uk/

Volunteers, your neighbors, your community, that's what people have traditionally relied upon. Professional responders do not come into being until cities need them, in part because the areas stop being the type of communities that allow neighbors to rely on each other.

I can think of an occassion when a bunch of volunteers poured out of their homes, assembled, and defeated what they thought was a hostile action undertaken by the most powerful army in the world, on April 19, 1775.

Although remember they did have the support of the French army ;-)

John, with all due respect, I must strongly disagree with your position. My fire company, the Independent Hose Co# 1 was founded in 1818, with roots that go even further back in history and is the oldest continuously operating volunteer company still operating in the state of Maryland. I belive 190 years of continuous volunteer service demonstrates the commitment and ability to rely upon volunteers for professional fire/rescue service.

Pete

Not in 1775. In April 1775, the British got their butts kicked by the citizens of Massachusetts.

French assistance only came after 1776, when the French upon Jefferson's urging provided the U.S. forces with some supplies, like guns and ammo. The French did not send any forces until after Burgoyne's losses near Saratoga, which ended with his surrender in October of 1777. At first, the French forces were really only maritime or naval. I don't think French land forces became involved until 1780, when Rochambeau cames iwth 6,000 troops. The French forces were very helpful at Yorktown keeping Cornwalis trapped, esp. with the French fleet, and also because one of the true experts in siege warfare was at Yorktown, Rochambeau. I think any help or backup in any fight is welcome.

However, IMO, the Brits had lost the war long before Yorktown. When Clinton abandoned Philadelphia in about mid-1778 and retreated to New York, it was simply a matter of time.

True - I don't think there was ever much political support for the war, in fact it was seen as a convenient way of removing some unpopular politicians back home - things don't change much !

It is however a requirement for any Brits living in America to point out the French role in the creation of the USA (it's in the small print in the back of the passport)

Interestingly the later French involvement was seen as a good thing by some of the British, it allowed them to seize French territory in India which seemed at the time a lot more valuable than some troublesome colony.

I've generally only volunteered for something when friends of mine were already involved. College students, if you have them, are always great targets.

One short-cut is to approach existing groups. Churches, civic organizations, neighborhood associations, clubs (rotary, masons, ham radio, bee-keepers, etc.), even scout troups. If you can get one gung-ho committed person, they can likely bring you 10 others.

One of the worst aspects of dealing with volunteers is that they don't all pop out of the same mold. You need to be ready to find ways to use whatever you get. (Or have a way to make it clear why you can't use them.)

A great book to read is Robert B. Cialdini's Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion.

I also do not agree with this statement, based on more than 35 years experience with the Southern Arizona Rescue Association (SARA), a volunteer SAR group in Tucson, AZ. I moved to SoCal in 1985 and I am not completely current, but they have recently erected a $750,000 permanent facility for equipment and training, and respond to over 100 operations a year, so I suspect they are doing just fine.

We work at our wage jobs for money, but also for satisfaction and good social vibes. Volunteering can only provide job satisfaction and social vibes, but this can be a very powerful motivator. In my opinion, it means creating an organization that acknowledges an individual's accomplishments, creates a positive environment, and operates through true teamwork.

Situations like this are hard to find, paid or unpaid.

SAR in Pima County operated under the Sheriff, who had two deputies assigned full time to that function (when I was current). They could call on volunteers to staff operations, and could also call on military and the state for helo support. In my experience, it was a very good hybrid combination.

SARA started out from very inept, humble beginnings and developed competence as it slowly accumulated a core of trained, motivated volunteers. Hand in hand there was a growing need for the group's services, as young baby boomers hit the trail and the population of Tucson increased.

One common volunteer was the college age individual, young and active, with a flexible schedule. Many of these people moved away after graduation, but some stayed. We trained a lot of people, many of whom never participated meaningfully in subsequent operations. Maybe one in ten trainees "repaid" their training investment.

Many, but of course not all, employers granted volunteers the flexibility to participate. I actually found an obscure clause in the HR regs for the Department of Interior that allowed up to 40 hours administrative leave for DOI employees to participate in SAR and similar volunteer organizations. I was also able to change my schedule, when in the office, to four 10 hour days, Tuesday through Friday, leaving the weekends and the following Monday free for SAR. This usually covered most of our operations.

One strength of a volunteer organization is the variety of professional backgrounds that individuals bring to the table. We had working civil engineers, who also rock climbed. As sophisticated search models came into use in the 1980s, we had a mathematics professor who was able to apply, modify, and develop them to our them to our situations. I, an archaeologist, did a lot of field work with a dendrochronologist (tree rings) and a biochemist. And of course, we also had a smattering of physicians, RNs, and EMTs.

Unpaid does not mean untrained or inexpert.

I saw a lot of groups who did not enjoy the advantages we experienced. Political infighting and glory hounding are the death of good volunteerism.

Above all, some one in the organization has to dedicate a lot of time and effort to move and develop the group. It doesn't always happen, but when it does, your group has a true saint.

The mountain rescue here in BC are volunteers (http://www.northshorerescue.com/) - I think their main problem is turning down new applicants rather than finding them.

The neighboring region had a recent tragedy. There the police (RCMP=state troopers) are responsible for rescues but aren't experts. A pilot reported an SOS in the snow, the police followed their procedure, which was to check for missing person reports. Since nobody was missing they ignored the SOS.
When a second SOS was seen a few days later a volunteer search was mounted and found one survivor - a lost cross country skier, unfortunately his wife had died of exposure.

In the UK the marine rescue services (RNLI) are all volunteer crewed and funded. This is because they date from before there was much government but they are very defensive of their independent status. It lets them use the best equipment, procedures and people free from political interference.

Very bureaucratic and incompetent.

This is not a personal attack on anyone and before you scald me please remember that I DO volunteer in the EMS agency (7 years) besides working an EMS job. I can’t speak for rest of the country because I haven’t experienced much short of few areas I mention later on but based on our system and billing and how we try to stay afloat here are my personal observations:

Think about this one: you go to school for 6 months to get your welding license and start working. Than after two years of welding you go to a special welding academy where you spend one year learning new stuff and you become a master welder. Now it's time to get a job but imagine that all the work you did until now and will do doesn't pay a dime. All you got is the warm and fuzzy feeling inside. But imagine working a building shoulder to shoulder next to another welder and realizing he is making $30 and hour for the same work you do for free. That's kind of what volunteer EMT to Paramedic path looks like. Now imagine how respectable free is in today’s world? The value of free is losing big time. Free means a pass while paying for something means "Oh I messed up I better not do it again". Yuppie goes up the trail on a 3 days hike with half a day worth of supplies and than calls 911 so you get him off the mountain. Free of charge and next weekend he will call again, asking especially for you by the first name because you were so fabulous.. You hit him with $10000 bill and he surely will think twice about placing that call. And that bill can be used to pay you, your members, your fuel costs and buy those supplies you need but been borrowing from the hospital.

And now here comes the statement that is very unpopular: EMS and Fire Services should be a paid organization. I'm not saying bill for fires but bill for medical portion or sar and pay your members. Screw the region that can't afford their own agency. You see how quickly station opens up and money gets found when someone dies because local govt was too stingy to pay for the ambulance service. But as long as there is someone willing to do it for free than local govt doesn’t care much. I saw volunteer companies in Virginia, Pennsylvania and Vermont and you know what? I rather drive myself to the hospital. I saw reports given by EMT in VA emergency rooms and I think my regular drunks can give better ones. Not to say that there are not some great volunteers out there but still in order to get gaps filled anyone can be put on the truck. You love doing what you doing because you end up doing it for free and people always say it is a perfect job to do what you love. So why not get paid for it? We are our worst enemies preventing ourselves from getting a paid position in our dream jobs. Why a county can afford paid Law Enforcement Agency but EMS/Fire will be the volunteers? Screw that: pay me and you will have 24/7/365 coverage without mutual aid from county over because we are run down due to no personnel. On top of that clowns in your local organization who are there because bodies were needed now would not pass the screening and your agency would be as professional and uniformed. EMS/Fire is not child play charity it is a profession. It is a job that should be treated with respect and like with every job you should get paid for it.

That’s just my 2 cents.