Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#186464 - 10/25/09 04:40 PM Re: Fenix L2D v TANK007 TK-566 shoot out. [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Ok, I don't use Eneloops and I've only owned the LD20, which is slightly different from the L2D. That said, it is my experience as well that the official runtimes seem to be reasonably close to the mark. Your estimation of 22 hrs for the L2D on the lowest setting would therefore appear to be too conservative - even judging by the data on the Light Reviews website (48+ hrs).

Either way, I can confirm that I get markedly better runtimes with my LD20 and NiMH or alkaline cells than the ones posted here: http://www.light-reviews.com/fenix_ld20/
So those estimates are either a bit on the conservative side or reflect the relatively modest capacity of the Eneloops. In any case, the very long runtime on the lowest setting on the L2D/LD20 is an important survival feature IMHO and a major selling point for the emergency preparedness minded. Not that it really has anything to do with the TK-566, it's just one more thing to keep in mind.

Top
#186469 - 10/25/09 07:27 PM Re: Fenix L2D v TANK007 TK-566 shoot out. [Re: Tom_L]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077

Quote:
Either way, I can confirm that I get markedly better runtimes with my LD20 and NiMH or alkaline cells than the ones posted here: http://www.light-reviews.com/fenix_ld20/
So those estimates are either a bit on the conservative side or reflect the relatively modest capacity of the Eneloops. In any case, the very long runtime on the lowest setting on the L2D/LD20 is an important survival feature IMHO and a major selling point for the emergency preparedness minded. Not that it really has anything to do with the TK-566, it's just one more thing to keep in mind.


The Eneloops have slightly less capacity (@ 2000mAhrs) than many other NiMh cell (2500-2700 mAhrs). Lithium Primary AA is rated @ 3200 mAhrs at a slightly higher voltage so flashlight manufacturers cannot help themselves but quote run times using the highest energy density cell such as Primary Lithium.

There is an excellent article showing the measured run times for the L2D are available here;

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=155819

The Lithium AA cells giving an excellent 86 hours. But the measured light output is only 6 Lumens. Comparing like for like 2AA 2600mA gives 60 hrs runtime again at 6 lumen. If we scale for the smaller capacity Eneloops i.e (2000/2600*60) we get 46 hrs. If my Fenix L2D was actually outputting 12 Lumen rather than 6 lumen then it is not unreasonable to assume(6/12*46) = 23hrs usage. (my 22 hour estimate was calculated by measuring the current draw from the flashlight i.e. 2000/90 where 90mA was the measured current considering the excellent flat regulation). Measuring draw current is a lot easier than measuring lumen output I'm afraid.

I have my doubts that the Fenix LD20 according to the Fenix website can actually output 9 Lumen for 71 hours even when using Lithium Energiser AAs. 71 hrs would mean a battery draw of around (3200/71) = 45mA on the lowest output and an output around 6 Lumen, but then again determining whether 6 or 9 lumens (50% brighter) is being generated is very difficult to determine without specialist optical kit. This is probably why subject photographic comparisons of light outputs between known flashlights are so popular on the Candlepower forum.


Top
#186514 - 10/26/09 06:40 AM Re: Fenix L2D v TANK007 TK-566 shoot out. [Re: Tom_L]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Tom_L

Either way, I can confirm that I get markedly better runtimes with my LD20 and NiMH or alkaline cells than the ones posted here: http://www.light-reviews.com/fenix_ld20/
So those estimates are either a bit on the conservative side or reflect the relatively modest capacity of the Eneloops. In any case, the very long runtime on the lowest setting on the L2D/LD20 is an important survival feature IMHO and a major selling point for the emergency preparedness minded. Not that it really has anything to do with the TK-566, it's just one more thing to keep in mind.


+1 about the fenix lights, but there is a couple of things about eneloop that I want to comment:

1) They are called low self discharge cells for a reason. With ordinary nimh, you have to babysit and feed that cell on a regular basis to get anywhere near their rated capacity. Store it for a couple of weeks and that high capacity nimh cell is down to the eneloop capacity or lower.

2) The quality of eneloop is very high and their ratings is conservative. You know what you get, and what you get is very good.

3) Other aspects such as cold weather performance and the ability to deliver high currents when required is better with eneloop than most of the alternatives.


If you use and recharge your batteries on a very frequent basis (once every week or so) you may be better off with high capacity nimh of high quality. If not, eneloop (or similar low self discharge cells of high quality) is a better choice. Most of us don't use/recharge anywhere frequent enough to reap the benefit of the higher capacity rated nimh. Most of us could do very well without the drawbacks of maintaining a suite of self-discharging nimh batteries...


Of course, nothing beats lithium primaries for long shelf life and high capacity. But those would be labeled "emergency use ONLY" in my shelf - too expensive. Batteries to be used would be either lsd nimh (i.e. eneloop) or rechargeable lithium batteries. I use primary alkaline only for toys or equipment with incredible low power consumption (remotes, clocks etc).


Edited by MostlyHarmless (10/26/09 06:50 AM)

Top
#186878 - 10/30/09 01:27 AM Re: Fenix L2D v TANK007 TK-566 shoot out. [Re: MostlyHarmless]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1311
OK - can I make a constructive suggestion here.

One of the primary purposes of these new flashlights is that they not only are a good survival tool - but they are also very important as self-defense weapons and tactical weapons. However, very little of the info you have posted gives any useful data that could assess the tactical value of the lights.

From a self-defense point of view, you should take each light at night and shine it on a wall about 10-12 feet away from you. Then try to photograph the whole beam spot on the wall and publish the picture here. That kind of info would be really helpful, esp. if you did a comparison between the two flashlights.

Also, take each flashlight and throw it about 25 feet in the air and let it land hard on concrete. See if either one is still working (and uncracked) after this abuse. That checks on durability.

Finally, take each flashlight and ram the forward end through a piece of drywall. See if each light is still intact and working after that abuse.

After these kinds of tests - you'll have something original to really report.

Pete

Top
#186896 - 10/30/09 03:33 AM Re: Fenix L2D v TANK007 TK-566 shoot out. [Re: Pete]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
Wow...all I really need my flashlights do is light up...


_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


Top
#186901 - 10/30/09 04:07 AM Re: Fenix L2D v TANK007 TK-566 shoot out. [Re: JohnE]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 1929
Loc: Colorado
If you need a single tool to defend against wall attacks, pulverize concrete, and remove drywall I'd recommend a sledge hammer not a flashlight.

Flashlights are best for reliably providing light. That's the kind of testing/reporting I like to read. Looking for data that proves one is better than another for chiseling your way into Fort Knox seems a little odd.

Top
#186911 - 10/30/09 08:15 AM Re: Fenix L2D v TANK007 TK-566 shoot out. [Re: haertig]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
The concrete & drywall tests aren't necessarily a bad thing depending or your needs: they're reasonable analogs for rocks etc.

If you're going caving or hiking in arctic environments or fording mountain streams etc, there are lots of "stress tests" of this sort that may make sense, assuming you would rather learn of water penetration or a poorly protected batteries at home rather than in the field.

If you're just getting walked by your dog then a "field failure" may not matter much.

Top
#186912 - 10/30/09 08:43 AM Re: Fenix L2D v TANK007 TK-566 shoot out. [Re: James_Van_Artsdalen]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Drywall photos & tests are for comparing different flashlights. One can see that flashlight X has a small, high intensity (far reaching) hot spot, flashlight Y has a wide, low intensity flood kind of light and so on. The trained eye can see these things easily.


Apart from providing the "flashlight experts" with a neutral frame of reference to help evaluate the flashlight, drywall photos have zero to none practical applications. Unless you know what to look for in a drywall photo it will tell you zip and nada about how the light perform. Use and abuse it, that's the only way to see if it works for you.


A special branch is called "drywall hunting". It is not the drywall that is hunted (for that a hammer is recommended), rather the drywall is used to hunt for imperfections and flaws in the beam. Slight imperfections in the beam have absolutely no practical consequences, but flashaholic hut for them all the same. A rather nerdy hobby... (Beams bad enough to have practical limitations is a thing of the past, or of very cheap low quality flashlights).

Top
#187033 - 10/31/09 02:32 AM Re: Fenix L2D v TANK007 TK-566 shoot out. [Re: MostlyHarmless]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1311
There might have been some confusion generated in what I said above. So let me explain.

First, I don't mind at all if people use a flashlight just for survival purposes. That's great! If that's your whole intention, just say so on the forum. I will completely understand. And there are lots of very nice lights (esp. LED lights) that work fine for that purpose.

But just be aware that some users (incl myself) really DO carry these lights for self-defense and tactical purposes. NOPE - you do not need a sledgehammer. There are modern tactical lights that are super tough, and these suckers can be used as weapons in several ways. For example, take a look at the Hellfighter lights at the following link:

http://www.hellfireusa.com/cgistore/store.cgi?page=/new/catalog.html&setup=1&cart_id=

These suckers are very bright and extremely solid. As in - super tough. They are not particularly light in weight, but they will take a real beating.

You can take one of these lights and ram it straight through the glass window on the drivers door of a car. Look at the front metal edge ahead of the glass lens - the metal is thick and crenulated ... and very strong. It will shatter things on impact. So these lights make a nice rescue tool for entry through windows. That is what I was referring to when I was talking about drywall. I am saying that you take the flashlight, hit the drywall as hard as you can (front end of flashlight first), and knock a hole right through the drywall. That's a good tactical light. It goes without saying that if you can knock holes in drywall, you can also do a pretty nasty job on an attacker's face or body. The flashlight acts as an impact weapon.

Finally, the pattern of light on a wall tells you quite a lot - if you need self-defense info. You really want a good hotspot in the center of the beam, and a low level of light that extends outwards for a good radius. Some lights have this - and a lot don't. This pattern is optimum for self-defense purposes, but other patterns of light may be quite appropriate for other purposes.

Have fun!

Pete


Edited by Pete (10/31/09 02:35 AM)

Top
#187040 - 10/31/09 03:13 AM Re: Fenix L2D v TANK007 TK-566 shoot out. [Re: Pete]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
I'm curious Pete, what sort of work do you do that requires you to put flashlights thru windows?
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


Top
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
December
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online
0 registered (), 242 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Cowherd35, pecenco, jacklii, DIYELECTROAL, plazacutlery
5226 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Fun Continues After the Emergency!
by Tjin
Happy Hanukkah
by LesSnyder
04:02 AM
What did you do today to prepare?
by LesSnyder
03:52 AM
building in a fire zone
by hikermor
04:24 PM
How to Flee the Fire (in ten easy steps)
by Russ
12/11/17 04:20 PM
Fire Preparedness Article
by Russ
12/11/17 04:10 PM
Getting found: reflectivity & lights
by Herman30
12/10/17 08:02 AM
Puerto Rico - Real Large-Scale Emergency
by M_a_x
12/09/17 09:09 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.