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#186530 - 10/26/09 01:50 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: oldsoldier]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
About the gun confiscations and the approach to imposing martial law in New Orleans during Katrina.
When you read back over the rhetoric in the media and the public statements from officials at the time some of it was so over the top that it is hard not to laugh at it.
Unfortunately people were shooting at each other just out of fear, and the Governor's statements about hordes of rioting looters (which didn't exist) certainly didn't help.
Some of the shootings are still under investigation.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/10/louisiana.katrina.shootings/index.html

There are times when we become our own worst nightmares.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#186541 - 10/26/09 03:28 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: NightHiker]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
There is a large motive against confiscation of your home or some other private property as a shelter place and that is the disaster will come to an end - whoever does the confiscating is liable for any damage to the abode. As long as there is a socieity, there is liability, and lawyers... Your house is the only one left standing for 6 blocks, and the city moves a field hospital or shelter for 30 neighbors into your living room? Prepare to get a new living room when its over. No, authorities will first look to public places to use, then abandoned commercial spaces, third maybe tents - and between these they'll find what they need.

Within 20 miles of home there is an empty KMart, an empty GI Joes, and and empty Lowes mega-store, all cleared, all that is necessary is to flip the lights and heat back on. Meaning, you don't need too much imagination to find places before you start commandeering private homes. And the same goes for food and other supplies - tight for the first 96 hours, but after that most authorities can expect supplies to start coming in.

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#186543 - 10/26/09 04:00 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: Lono]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
We saw the logical end of this type of dangerous fantasy with timothy mcveigh and waco. this is not a survivalist site.
The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end – Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#186548 - 10/26/09 04:45 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: Lono]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: Lono
... No, authorities will first look to public places to use, then abandoned commercial spaces, third maybe tents - and between these they'll find what they need.


I am a safety officer for a uniformed federal disaster response medical team. Actually, we have very nice insulated, climate-controlled tents for our field hospital. I have been on numerous operations, including the WTC on 9/11 and Katrina.

WE DO NOT SEIZE PRIVATE PROPERTY, EVER, nor would we tolerate anyone doing so in our presence. Our security element would probably arrest any of us who tried, and we would certainly be fired and sent home, if our teammates didn't beat us senseless and then resign in protest themselves first. The Constitution and laws remain in effect, even during disasters. The only thing we might commandeer is several tables at the nearest open pub.

I could tell you a very interesting story about our encounter with some out of control, heavily armed local "authorities" who tried such nonsense, but, well, I can't. Let's just say that there was zero tolerance for illegal behavior, and the problem went away.


Edited by Jeff_M (10/26/09 05:05 PM)

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#186551 - 10/26/09 05:44 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: Kona1]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Kona1, I wasn't referring to your post, so please don't take offense. You're new, so you probably aren't aware that this matter has long been an ongoing subject, mostly regarding the at-home stash. grin

Sue

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#186555 - 10/26/09 06:22 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: comms]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"... I believe some unsavory LEO after Katrina did do some confiscation..."

I am currently reading Survival: How a culture of preparedness can save you and your family from disaster by Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honoré. It was a fact that the people who evacuated to the Superdome were searched, and weapons and drugs were confiscated. It was driving Honoré up the wall when he was informed that TSA delayed the exit of the people there until they could accumulate enough people to 'screen' the people leaving the Superdome, even though they had all been 'screened' before they were allowed to enter the place. Honoré referred to it as 'ludicrous'. Our tax dollars at work.

I have not gotten far enough into the book to see if the street cops were doing it.

Sue

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#186558 - 10/26/09 06:31 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: Jeff_M]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2197
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
WE DO NOT SEIZE PRIVATE PROPERTY, EVER, nor would we tolerate anyone doing so in our presence.

That's good that you and your group feel that way. However, not every group of "authorities" believes as you do. Private firearms WERE seized in New Orleans during Katrina, for no other reason than the "authorities" didn't feel private citizens should have them. That is established fact. So while illegal seizure of private property by authorities may be rare, it HAS happened. And in recent times. This is very unfortunate. It has caused people like myself, who have a healthy respect for our government and law enforcement, to start asking questions about their actions.

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#186561 - 10/26/09 06:39 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: haertig]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I believe the founding fathers intended that we should constantly call into question the intentions of our government.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#186568 - 10/26/09 08:01 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: haertig]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
I think its difficult to generalize on the possible actions of police based on actions after Katrina. New Orleans police were witnessed looting (stealing, a felony) from stores and hotels, not 'confiscating' anything for the greater good - there was no higher plan or greater good behind these acts, they were simple felony, carried out in broad daylight among civilian looters. From what I know of the NOPD, this was somewhat predictable, a good portion of the force has always been less than reliable and susceptible to open corruption, but not every NO officer is- or police departments generally. You splash a hurricane down on my part of the country and I betcha dollars to donuts that the same looting and stealing does not go on - and if it does, the cop gets the same treatment as any other looter.

Private firearms were also seized in New Orleans, especially after the first night of pitch darkness, reported rapes, looting, pillaging, assaults and murders. Martial law might have had a similar effect as seizing firearms, and the same intent - get guns off the streets. Here authorities did what they felt they had to do at the time to reduce violence - seizing guns would have a debatable impact, but for people who had few other options I could see why they did what they did.

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#186570 - 10/26/09 09:29 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: Jeff_M]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Jeff_M

WE DO NOT SEIZE PRIVATE PROPERTY, EVER, nor would we tolerate anyone doing so in our presence.

There was a post here some time back from a National Guardsman whose unit was sent to New Orleans indicating that his unit had to deal with numerous cases of looting ... by NOPD.

I don't recall seeing any citizen complaints about the behavior federal or other out-of-state units, or even Louisiana state police. Every case I recall involved NOPD.

Katrina and New Orleans are special cases and can't really be compared to anything else. Remember that all of this mayhem occurred in an area hit by a minimal _Category 1_ hurricane: areas south and east that got hit strongly didn't have such poor official behavior, nor have there been such problems in other hurricanes in other states.

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