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#185410 - 10/15/09 04:30 PM Re: AED Questions [Re: scafool]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
To expand a bit more. An AED, (automatic external defibrillator) will only shock if it detects a shockable heart rhythm, and there are only 2 rhythms that are shockable. If the patient has flat-lined an AED isn't gonna help other than to let you know it won't shock them. The only 2 shockable heart rhythms are Vtach and Vfib. No matter what you see on television, you can't restart a heart that's in asystole with an AED.

If there's no detectable electrical activity in the heart, the AED won't help.

Anyone care to guess where they were first publicly installed and used regularly?





Edited by JohnE (10/15/09 04:37 PM)
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#185416 - 10/15/09 04:46 PM Re: AED Questions [Re: JohnE]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: JohnE
Anyone care to guess where they were first publicly installed and used regularly?

Hmmm, obvious answers might be places like a government building, shopping mall, airport...but I'll go out on a limb and say maybe the first AED was installed at a school's athletic department? It is always so sad to hear about kids who drop dead after being hit in the chest with a line drive or who collapse from some undiagnosed heart condition.

Funny...nursing home never popped into my mind when I thought about this question. I wonder why. That also seems like an obvious first place to install these but it just didn't register in my brain until now.

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#185418 - 10/15/09 05:04 PM Re: AED Questions [Re: Arney]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
I should have been more specific, the first public places where they were widely installed and used, not necessarily the very first place.

Hint. Think excitement, older folks, alcohol, smoking...
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#185424 - 10/15/09 05:35 PM Re: AED Questions [Re: JohnE]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Square dancing? Ballroom? Surely not BINGO wink
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#185425 - 10/15/09 05:46 PM Re: AED Questions [Re: JohnE]
yelp Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 172
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: JohnE
I should have been more specific, the first public places where they were widely installed and used, not necessarily the very first place.

Hint. Think excitement, older folks, alcohol, smoking...


The track?
_________________________
(posting this as someone that has unintentionally done a bunch of stupid stuff in the past and will again...)

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#185430 - 10/15/09 06:24 PM Re: AED Questions [Re: yelp]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
OMG! Gambling Casinos?
I must ask about this one for sure.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#185433 - 10/15/09 06:56 PM Re: AED Questions [Re: scafool]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner...!

Casinos and airports were the first broad usage locations for AEDs.

Bingo parlors are probably in there as well...;^)

_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#185438 - 10/15/09 07:31 PM Re: AED Questions [Re: Desperado]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: Desperado
Evening Ladies and Gents,

The thread Doug started and Scafool's comment has sent me wondering down an ADD side road.

Many of you have heard I will be re-entering the wireless infrastructure industry soon (if someone will tell which cardinal point on the compass to follow).

Said line of work often leads me to be well and truly out in the boonies far from EMS help. This line of work might not be as dangerous as Alaskan crab fishing, but I have seen more than my share of grievous injuries, and sadly, several fatalities.

Considering the afore mentioned risks, my FAK is generally well stocked and I always wish I had more training.

I wish for (and will be getting) AED training out of my own pocket. Having looked at the price of a new AED I see a small problem, my budget. Next as I was shopping, I found refurbished AEDs. Now this brings to mind refurbished parachutes, not something I would want normally. (Unless the aircraft was NOT functioning as advertised and that was all that was available.)

Now for the questions:

1) Does anyone have experience with refurb AED's?
2) Any specific manufacturer better than the rest?
3) Is a vehicle mounted/charged (12VDC) option available?
4) Is a refurb AED like the refurb parachute, better than nothing?
5) If purchased new, what is the life cycle on something like this?
6) How often / how expensive is re-calibration?
7) How long is training?
8) What legal mess am I opening up?
9) Anything I missed?

Keep in mind, I will be purchasing this on my own dime if I do.




I forgot to mention a few things:

A) These job sites are often very remote. Sometimes to the point that the materials are brought in by helicopter.
B) I know the AED is not a one stop fix-it, but I was hoping to buy time if appropriate for EMS (Ground or Air) to get there.
C) Since I am a consultant, it will be my money.

To give an idea of some of the remoteness of these sites, remember the last time you were 60 miles or more from civilization on a highway and the phone worked? That is the norm for this kind of work.

One of the things I do upon getting a new job site is create an emergency list with all the local contact numbers, good directions from the 2 closest Fire/EMS locations responsible for the area to the job, and directions from the job to the two nearest medical facilities. I also include GPS coordinates to the site, and we create a cleared helicopter LZ just in case. I also go visit the two closest FD/EMS stations and the local PD and distribute the directions/GPS info. These tower sites have address numbers, but that generally has nothing to do with finding them.

I will get the blank file off my PC laptop and share it soon. Someone might have something I missed, or it might help others who work remotely.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#185439 - 10/15/09 07:38 PM Re: AED Questions [Re: Desperado]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
Check with the state health dept. of the state where you'll be using it, maybe there's a provision for your specific need.


_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#185451 - 10/15/09 10:37 PM Re: AED Questions [Re: JohnE]
NobodySpecial Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 197
>Desperado
It wouldn't be my first safety purchase for a remote job site.
But Amazon are selling them for home use for $1300. The ads are a little dishonest, a big scary chart showing how cardiac arrest kills twice as many people as all other accidents - true but an AED doesn't help for most sudden cardiac arrests.

There is a possibility they are useful on work sites for electric shock victims, at least for low voltage shocks that cause cardiac arrhythmia. If you happen to get a shock from an 11KV line - well, been nice knowing you!

The reason for putting them in malls is that with 100,000s of people passing through then the chance of a 1 in a million cardiac arrhythmia case becomes more reasonable.




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