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#185100 - 10/13/09 02:00 AM Re: Student suspended for pocket knife in in his car [Re: Desperado]
2005RedTJ Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 475
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
I do a lot of work in many local schools. I EDC both a pocket knife and a Gerber Suspension every day. I also bring in a razor knife in my tool bag on every jobsite.

I wonder when it's going to get so bad that I actually get in trouble for it even though having the tools to do my job with is part of my job...

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#185107 - 10/13/09 02:46 AM Re: Student suspended for pocket knife in in his car [Re: 2005RedTJ]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2719
Loc: Alberta, Canada
As with other examples, the response really seems over the top. But some places are extra-sensitive because of previous bad events, so it takes a while for the pendulum to swing back toward common sense.

This is one more reason why the tool for your car is a Cold Steel shovel. Highly effective tool, totally innocuous to the bureaucratic eye.

I've heard (hearsay?) that the Scout shovel sold on the official U.S. website is in fact a Cold Steel shovel. Don't know if anyone can confirm this.

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#185119 - 10/13/09 05:05 AM Re: Student suspended for pocket knife in in his car [Re: dougwalkabout]
UpstateTom Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 165
Loc: Rens. County, NY
I shouldn't say this, but I will. Most public schools, especially the public schools of Troy, have a lousy reputation locally, and probably don't attract the best and brightest among administrators. School districts aren't even close to equal in this area, and my personal opinion is that this is caused by petty local politics, and each district wanting to be different than the ones next to it. Many people, perhaps most families, make their decisions on where to live largely based on school district. None of them would pick Troy based on the schools. They move there based on the cost, the otherwise nice areas outside Troy, and those that stay do so because of the investment they have in the area. I say these things based on living in the area for about 20 years, about half of those in Troy.

I'm sure this kid will be fine. He'll grow up to be someone that these folks will never have the courage to become, or perhaps even imagine. My question is, who'll be the next kid that the administrator picks on?

Cooperated with the authorities? My view of a typical vice-principle is of someone that lacks the intelligence to be a teacher, the courage to be a policeman, and the talent to operate the slurpy machine at the Dairy Queen.

Be polite and lawyer up needs to be basic survival training for kids these days.

Sorry for the rant. I have a low tolerance for small minded people and bullies, and this seems to fit both criteria...and it's in my back yard.

Edit - I'll buy the local political angle that ironraven brought up as being very possible. Local politics are nothing if not petty, and school boards are both small and political.



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#185122 - 10/13/09 05:32 AM Re: Student suspended for pocket knife in in his car [Re: UpstateTom]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
When I was in high school our cars had guns in them to use after school... and this was not 20 years ago either... and not in a small town. Things are going down hill VERY VERY VERY FAST and in another 10 years these kids will be worse and making things even WORSE.

Freedom... getting smaller.
_________________________
Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#185131 - 10/13/09 07:51 AM Re: Student suspended for pocket knife in in his car [Re: avillageperson]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
Take a look at the vidoes on the Cold Steel site to see the horrific injuries that can be inflicted with a 2 inch blade.
Course you can draw another conclusion than 'they should be banned' from it. Pass the attitude test and the reality is normal cops won't arrest you because they think it is so harmless....

After the complete failure of the handgun ban in the UK (shootings doubled) the media and all the politicians pretended it had worked, then passed knife bans. What happened? you guessed it...

Originally Posted By: avillageperson

I just don't see how a 2 inch pocket knife could by any stretch
of the imagination be considered a weapon. A pair of scissors is
just as dangerous and I am sure there are plenty in the school. A
pocket knife is a tool not a weapon.


Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Those are the rules and he got caught breaking them. That's the problem with implementing laws, bylaws or even school rules. No favour should be given to those no matter their background otherwise what is the point of having the school rules in the first place.
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#185135 - 10/13/09 10:21 AM Re: Student suspended for pocket knife in in his car [Re: avillageperson]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
"The Lansingburgh Central School District has a zero-tolerance policy on weapons. According to the district's Codes of Conduct, students are not allowed to have "a weapon of any kind" on school grounds. Even though a pocket knife is not considered a weapon under New York State penal code, the district also prohibits students from possessing anything "that reasonably can be considered a weapon."


So I had better leave my hands, feet, head, arms, elbows , knees, pens, pencils, belt, torch, shoes, key's, 550 cord, karabiner et al at home then?

To me this is a catch-all policy that can be applied any which way they feel like.

Anything can be "reasonably considered to be a weapon" if you know what you are doing.

Yes, he should sue. If only on the grounds that he has been denied a fair & impartial hearing.

_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#185138 - 10/13/09 11:28 AM Re: Student suspended for pocket knife in in his car [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Mistake #1 - allowing them to seach the car without a search warrant - Just say NO
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#185140 - 10/13/09 12:03 PM Re: Student suspended for pocket knife in in his [Re: KG2V]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: KG2V_was_kc2ixe
Mistake #1 - allowing them to seach the car without a search warrant - Just say NO


One problem.

When you purchase your parking decal for the privilege of parking on the school property, you consent to the search in advance. Read the paperwork and the school handbook closely.

There was an issue with this in the past over Concealed Handgun License holders driving onto school property. CHL holders are not allowed onto the school premise while armed. The question was whether the premise stopped at the threshold of the building entry, or at the property line. For purposes of the CHL, premise was deemed to be entering the facilities (building, spectator area, playing field, etc). Meaning the parking lot was not considered "on premise". This goes against EVERY OTHER definition of "on premise" that Texas has. Example: An intruder is "on premise" the instant they cross onto the property, not when they enter a structure or facility.

This now brings into question whether the knife was actually on school premises. If this were my child, and he was in his car with its school parking decal (temp. or perm.) he and I had already consented to the search by affixing the decal to his car. If he was in my truck and had no permit decal (temp. or perm.) then the school would have to obtain consent to search.


_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#185141 - 10/13/09 12:20 PM Re: Student suspended for pocket knife in in his [Re: Desperado]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Might be - then again, my school had no student parking at all, so I wouldn't know.

I'd STILL say no - make them take me to jail to get my keys etc - I doubt it would go that far
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#185143 - 10/13/09 12:35 PM Re: Student suspended for pocket knife in in his [Re: KG2V]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
You are right. They tow/impound the vehicle while waiting on a warrant. It used to be there had to be probable cause for a warrant, but once you refuse (if you have the parking decal) you give the probable cause.

Where I went to high school, it was not uncommon to see both a shotgun and a rifle in the back window of a truck (small town, and kids didn't understand things flying around in a crash). I doubt there was a car in the parking lot that didn't have some kind of a firearm in it.

Having said that, if one had any other contraband you darn well didn't park on campus.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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