Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#185010 - 10/12/09 01:24 PM How can we teach our kids?
Jesselp Offline
What's Next?
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 263
Loc: New York
How can we teach our kids to be responsible adults, when they are up against things like this?

NY Times: Its a Fork, It's a Spoon, It's a . . . Weapon?

Short version: Six year old joins cubscouts. Is issued a spork folding fork/spoon/knife combo to eat with. Is so proud of cubscouts, he brings his spork eating utensil to school to eat with. Gets suspended for 45-days for bringing a weapon to school.

Really, read the article. It's infuriating.

I, like many people on this board, rarely go anywhere without some sort of a blade on my person. Others carry tools that have much more potential for damage that blades (i.e. firearms). How can we teach our kids to be responsible, and to use sporks(!)/knives/tools responsibly? My kids want to emulate everything I do - they'll want to carry a knife when they're old enough (and right now, they're not), and it would make me proud if I raised them to be responsible enough to do so. But it seams like the administrators of the world don't want me to do so.

For the record, to head off the inevitable flame war, having never had a six year old in the house, I have no idea if they can be responsible enough to use a knife (I tend to doubt it). But a spork? Come on


Edited by Jesselp (10/12/09 01:59 PM)
Edit Reason: accuracy - thanks Benjamin! I should have looked at the photo.
_________________________
http://spligovia.blogspot.com
A blog about adventure
in and around New York

Top
#185013 - 10/12/09 01:39 PM Re: How can we teach our kids? [Re: Jesselp]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
From the looks of it, he didn't have a spork, but one of the folding blade knife/fork/spoon type pocketknives. That's what he's holding, and that's what the article talks about. A spork is a plastic utensil that has limited ability to cut with.

The tool the kid had, which was not a spork, unfortunately can inflict some damage, and would probably violate weapons policies at most public schools. For a six year old, a tool with a sharp metal blade should probably only be used and possessed under supervision and within proper context. As I recall we were never allowed to have knives at school when I was a kid, and that was in a pretty rural setting.

However, that does not validate the school's zero tolerance policy with regard to issuing an automatic suspension. In my day, if the teacher caught us with a pocketknife (which almost always meant we had it out at school instead of keeping it put away like we should've been), the teacher would just confiscate it and maybe we got it back at the end of the year, or maybe we got our parents to come get it if it was something special and took our beating when we got home and didn't see the knife for a year or so anyways because dad was pissed. In any case, a 45 day suspension for a 6 year old in this context is unwarranted and inappropriate. Such policies abrogate good sense and villify an otherwise decent kid.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

Top
#185032 - 10/12/09 03:56 PM Re: How can we teach our kids? [Re: benjammin]
BigToe Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 81
I agree, Benjammin. Six years old is too young to carry without supervision, but the zero tolerance reaction without appeal seems draconian.

I was a scout leader throughout my kids' cub scout and boy scout years. We issued Totin' Chip cards ( Totin' Chip ) once the scout showed respect and proficency. They had to be carried and could be taken away for infractions.
_________________________
Men have become the tools of their tools.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#185036 - 10/12/09 04:27 PM Re: How can we teach our kids? [Re: Jesselp]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
I have one of those "Hobo Tools" and it's a knife, fork and spoon, and not a spork.

That being said, and though it seems like a ridiculous punishment, ultimately the parents should have known about the rule and been aware of where the tool was kept and whether it was being taken to school. Those school policies are usually well known, and not in any hidden rule book in the basement and the parents obviously knew about the tool.

I took my Cub Scout Pocket Knife to school (similar though much lighter rules) when I was a child. My parents were not too happy about it, and my father held onto my pocket knife for two weeks because I broke the rules. Luckily, I was caught by my parents and not by anyone at the school.

Being a responsible adult means following the rules. Maybe he will grow up to be a responsible adult because he was caught and punished. Or perhaps he'll be an irresponsible adult because his parents are trying to get him out of the consequences of his actions and he'll be one of those adults who refuses to take responsibility for anything.

_________________________
"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

Top
#185041 - 10/12/09 04:48 PM Re: How can we teach our kids? [Re: Nicodemus]
Jesselp Offline
What's Next?
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 263
Loc: New York
I owe the forum an appology: When I read the article initially, I did it on a mobile device and did not see the "tool" in question. I assumed, from the verbal description of it, that it was a spork.

Now that I see what the tool actually was, I agree that the issue is not quite so cut and dry for the six-year old. That said, the punishment still seems draconian to me.

Continue as you were.
_________________________
http://spligovia.blogspot.com
A blog about adventure
in and around New York

Top
#185046 - 10/12/09 05:03 PM Re: How can we teach our kids? [Re: Jesselp]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
No worries, and no need to apologize. We caught it and I think we're all in agreement pretty much. The thread was a good one.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

Top
#185051 - 10/12/09 05:50 PM Re: How can we teach our kids? [Re: benjammin]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
Agreed. No need to apologize, but good on you for the manners none the less!
_________________________
"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

Top
#185094 - 10/13/09 12:28 AM Re: How can we teach our kids? [Re: Jesselp]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Even though we know what it is now, the LMF spork is described as having knife-like functions. (Optimist copy writers.) With that bit of puffery, what started off as funky spoon/fork hybrid turns into oh-my-god-he's-got-a-knife-think-of-the-children!

There are days where I wonder about humanity.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#185101 - 10/13/09 02:00 AM Re: How can we teach our kids? [Re: ironraven]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2747
Loc: Alberta, Canada
+1 on benjammin's post. Sums up my thoughts on this story quite nicely.

Top
#185192 - 10/13/09 06:52 PM Re: How can we teach our kids? [Re: dougwalkabout]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
From the article: "... school administrators argue that it is difficult to distinguish innocent pranks and mistakes from more serious threats, and that the policies must be strict to protect students."

It's only difficult for people who are stupid and lazy.

"The Christina school district attracted similar controversy in 2007 when it expelled a seventh-grade girl who had used a utility knife to cut windows out of a paper house for a class project."

The problem is that many kids are used to using tools as they are intended to be used, they use them all the time at home, but only at school are they considered a weapon.

Cut down on the excessive spending and the new $40,000 car, and HOME SCHOOL. There are plenty of resources and people who will help you.

Sue

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, chaosmagnet, cliff 
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Who's Online
2 registered (Jeanette_Isabelle, M_a_x), 216 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
KMNPack, NickChurick, Willie, Pierdolec89, willpo
5288 Registered Users
Newest Posts
OVERBOARD VEST
by Phaedrus
03:53 AM
The Summer I Was Lost, 1965
by WesleyH
01:27 AM
John D. Mccann's Book, "Build The Perfect Survival
by WesleyH
01:22 AM
Remains of actor found in remote area
by WesleyH
11:51 PM
Summer car prep
by Russ
11:25 PM
fanny pack sized kit
by teacher
08:40 PM
A very humbling 'survival' experience!
by Phaedrus
07/14/19 09:05 PM
New Orleans flooding / T.S. Barry
by wildman800
07/13/19 04:43 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.