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#184436 - 10/07/09 12:00 AM Church Security
Tirec Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 45
Loc: Rocky Mountain West
My church is beginning the process of setting up a volunteer security team for Sunday morning services and I'm wondering if others have been through this process?

The church runs around 600-700 on a given Sunday morning.

We have a sheriff's deputy who attends, as well as several former military with security backgrounds and some with private security training. One of the issues mentioned was to know who else has a CCW permit so that during an incident, the "good guys" know who each other are.

Among the issues being discussed:
liability (individual and for the church)
training
appropriate use of force and when needed
using those with CCW
issuing tasers
identifying those on the security team (special clothing, etc.)
should those who are armed also wear identifying clothing, or would that make them a target.


Any thoughts, comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Tirec

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#184437 - 10/07/09 12:13 AM Re: Church Security [Re: Tirec]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077

Sorry but I couldn't resist laugh laugh whistle

From a controversial British comedy show from about 12 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAQy8v0d_qo


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#184438 - 10/07/09 12:19 AM Re: Church Security [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1913
Loc: Washington, DC

Has your church had any incidents?

What scenarios do you envision? A lone lunatic? Robbery?

Will the congregation be informed? That could be disturbing to some.

With a deputy in the congregation you at least have a head start on talking to the local police.






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#184440 - 10/07/09 12:31 AM Re: Church Security [Re: Tirec]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: Tirec
My church is beginning the process of setting up a volunteer security team for Sunday morning services and I'm wondering if others have been through this process?

The church runs around 600-700 on a given Sunday morning.

We have a sheriff's deputy who attends, as well as several former military with security backgrounds and some with private security training. One of the issues mentioned was to know who else has a CCW permit so that during an incident, the "good guys" know who each other are.

Among the issues being discussed:
liability (individual and for the church) Good Start, but add civil/criminal law.
training
appropriate use of force and when needed
using those with CCW Not in Texas right? No CHL in Church in Texas
issuing tasers
identifying those on the security team (special clothing, etc.)
should those who are armed also wear identifying clothing, or would that make them a target. Keep it all Quiet, or you are making someone a target.


Any thoughts, comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Tirec


Man this is going to be a tough nut to crack. There was recently a story in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram about this very subject. It was part of the 10 year anniversary piece on the Wedgewood Baptist Church shooting.

Many more churches are beginning to do this with or without the congregation's knowledge / approval.

I do know the off duty LEO that was in the church when the shooting went down has had a lot of regret for not carrying his firearm that day. That was another of the FTWST stories.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#184443 - 10/07/09 12:46 AM Re: Church Security [Re: Desperado]
2005RedTJ Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 475
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
I've only set foot in a church once since I got my CCW. My daughter was performing a song that night.

I provided my own security while I was there. No-one else needed to know I was carrying, so I didn't feel the need to tell anyone. I carry everywhere else, so it was no big deal to me.

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#184448 - 10/07/09 02:08 AM Re: Church Security [Re: Dagny]
Tirec Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 45
Loc: Rocky Mountain West
We haven't had any major incidents, though there have been some reports of an estranged couple with a restraining order.

Scenarios could include security for kids, such as in custody disputes, domestic disputes, protesters, someone trying to rob the ushers after the offering, violent attacks such as the New Life shooting in Colorado Springs, or some of the other church shootings in recent years, or an attack on a "soft" target of a church.

An announcement was made about forming a security team, so discussions aren't being kept secret from the congregation.

One of the issues being considered is wearing a colored vest or even just a name badge to denote membership on the security team.

Thanks for the points.

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#184450 - 10/07/09 02:12 AM Re: Church Security [Re: Desperado]
Tirec Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 45
Loc: Rocky Mountain West
Thanks.

We are looking at civil & criminal liability.

My state does allow carry in Church.

We also discussed that having armed members wear identifying clothing might make them a target.

Thanks.


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#184455 - 10/07/09 03:26 AM Re: Church Security [Re: Tirec]
yelp Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 169
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Tirec
One of the issues being considered is wearing a colored vest or even just a name badge to denote membership on the security team.


Have you considered using a certain kind of lapel pin or tie tack? Subtle identification tokens, but obvious if somebody knew to look for them. You could even have tokens that were identical except for color: one color would denote 'security,' another color could denote 'armed,' etc...
_________________________
(posting this as someone that has unintentionally done a bunch of stupid stuff in the past and will again...)

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#184462 - 10/07/09 06:57 AM Re: Church Security [Re: yelp]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
I have never been part of or responsible for a security team.
I am thinking about one thing though in regards to it.

So just a thought;
There has always been the question of how visible a policing force should be.
One idea is that they should be very visible and the reasoning is that you want their simple presence to be a deterrent to the bad guys and you want them easily found if somebody needs help. It also should be loud enough that they can tell easily if they are in their right positions or not.

Second;
If your church is like any other organization I have ever seen then as soon as you have people designated as some kind of authority they will be expected to act as ushers as well as security guards. You will likely find yourselves expected to act as first aid, as fire marshals and as almost every other service that your churches administrators are wanting but too cheap to contract out for.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#184463 - 10/07/09 07:23 AM Re: Church Security [Re: yelp]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
I have never been part of or responsible for a security team.
I am thinking about one thing though in regards to it.

So just a thought;
There has always been the question of how visible a policing force should be.
One idea is that they should be very visible and the reasoning is that you want their simple presence to be a deterrent to the bad guys and you want them easily found if somebody needs help. It also should be loud enough that they can tell easily if they are in their right positions or not.

Second;
If your church is like any other organization I have ever seen then as soon as you have people designated as some kind of authority they will be expected to act as ushers as well as security guards. You will likely find yourselves expected to act as first aid, as fire marshals and as almost every other service that your churches administrators are wanting but too cheap to contract out for.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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