The moddels you played with, were you able to attach your sleeping bag and tent externally? That is an important consideration, as it will be my task to carry my own bag and the family tent. Also, in one of the side pouches made for a bladder system did you put a hydration system in there, and how did that work out for you? Sorry, for the plethora of questions, but I have finally found someone who has used the system so I am interested in as many specifics as you are willing to provide.

The market that these were designed for were the sniper community, guys who need to carry two primary weapons.

I haven't played with the bigger packs with rifle sleeves, but I have with the Halftrack and the Gun Slinger. On both backs there was ample room to lash stuff to the outside if needed. Both these packs had accommodations for hydration bladders (the Halftrack had hydration pockets on the side making it easy to access and add water without digging through all your stuff).

I never put these packs through there paces, just played with them and I plan on getting a Gun Slinger or smaller bag for a range/hunting backpack in the near future. One of the Halftrack packs I worked with had seen a tour in Afghanistan and was still 100% usable. The quality of these packs is on par with Eagle Industries, Kifaru and Mystery Ranch (you should look at Kifaru and Mystery Ranches offerings, outstanding rugged packs with lots of options to "customize").

And that is the $64,000.00 answer. In the "Old Days" we just lashed the M21 or M24 to the good old Alice large, and carried what was then known as the CAR16 or an H&K MP5SD.

Maybe that is why I have a bad back.......

That is how capitalism is supposed to work. But then again investment bankers were supposed to police their own ranks and eliminate frauds. As with many other things the conventional wisdom doesn't always shake out.

Generally the value in any market is in the middle. As you move away from the middle you get diminishing returns. Go too low and you potentially get a stand-in for a functional object. Go too high and your mainly getting specialized features you likely don't need, hype, and a brand name.

A thousand dollar backpack is Not five times better than a $200 dollar model. Often the low end has the simple advantage that you can buy in bulk, possibly getting a further discount, and toss them one-by-one as they wear out. If your handy with a needle and thread and stay on top of wear spots and weak seams any good quality pack can give virtually unlimited service.

The good news is that he average quality of camping gear has gone up. The difference between mid and top grades is seldom the materials used. Mostly it is the care taken stitching them together and attention to detail. Any deficiency in this area is pretty easy to correct if your experienced with repairs.

Note: Kevlar is being presented by some manufacturers as the be and end all of stitching. Fact is that Kevlar has to be used carefully and with considerable finesse if it is to benefit any assembly. Used incorrectly it can weaken the seam and cause it to fail in a short time. Beware of hype and buzz words.

Money is always in short supply and anything spent on one piece of gear is not spent on another. Survival is a system that demands it be handled as a whole.

I have nothing against spending money or high end gear. But the automatic and reflexive association between dollars spent and quality just doesn't hold water. If your very careful, and a bit lucky, you get what you pay for. Rare to get more than you pay for and common to get less.

I have an external frame pack that I still use for hauling cargo. Cost me $80 a couple of decades ago, I got it on sale and they knocked $10 off the price because it had a mis-stitched seam. I keep it going despite the wear and tear by assiduously inspecting, patching, stitching and reinforcing any weakness. Equivalent models are still on the market for roughly the same price window.

Hauling supplies in a group I have seen packs that sold for many times the price blow seams and generally fall apart. Often the failure was at a point that should have been spotted by any conscientious buyer. This is an argument for buying from a local shop where you can go over any prospective purchase with a fine-tooth comb and reject, or get compensated for, any defect. Any reputable manufacturer will take back and/or repair any defective product. Even discount stores will do the same; so it isn't a very high standard.

I have purchased some very high end gear. The single best high-end purchase I have ever made was a $16 pair of Dyneema boot laces strong enough to tow a truck with. This was back when it was top-dollar exotic stuff and regular bootlaces were going for $4. I put them on my work boots and most of twenty years later, on their third, or forth, set of work boots, they still look new. They seem likely to outlive me and have, in retrospect, exceeded my wildest expectations. It is often the simplest things that benefit most from high-tech solutions.

I tend to like to carry two primary. One bolt action, long distance flat shooter, and one semi-auto close in. I have no genuine interest in fully automatic weapons. I've trained on them, qualified with them, carried them-don't care for them. They are a jam waiting to happen, and it is a waste of ammo unless you are using suppression fire. In the hinterland where people have clandestine weed fields I don't pretend everyone I encounter will want to be my friend. I will take a look at the others you mentioned. I am here to learn, and have an open mind. That is my main interest in the rifle sleave being incorporated on long hunting trips to store the semi-auto.

This pack may be perfect for you then. I just wanted to throw those other brands out there as a comparison. Eberlestock is not a commonly known company because of it's niche market, but it is solid gear made by good people.

Lets try and keep this thread on track and focus more on Kingarthur's questions and less on the cost aspect. If a $400 pack isn't for you... don't buy one.