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#182323 - 09/16/09 12:08 AM Re: Getting Real with Solar PV Power [Re: Todd W]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Quote:
There are some PCs out now that use <10watts while running.

Unfortunately the monitor will use a lot more!


There are some 17 inch monitors which will run around the 20 Watt mark. I have recently replaced my computer monitor with a LG Flatron M227WD 22 inch Widescreen which runs at around 33 Watts. It also doubles up as a replacement portable 1080 HDTV as well with its inbuilt DVB-T digital TV tuner. It even has an optical audio output so I can connect it to my upscaling Cambridge Audio DAC Magic and Trends TA-10.1 Amp for superb digital radio performance as well. grin

Replacing the Mobo and Processor for my elderly 6 year old computer (just looked on my current C:\ drive and can see files there dating back to 2003) is getting to be much more of a challenge trying to get the best performance, energy efficiency and cost mix right. Plus I need something to handle the 100 Meg Broadband which will be available by the end of year as part of the local fibre city project. At last some decent Broadband speeds should be available keeping up with the rest of the world.

http://www.fibrecity.eu/








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#182324 - 09/16/09 12:29 AM Re: Getting Real with Solar PV Power [Re: Susan]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Quote:
I just read something very interesting in the Spring 2009 issue of the Permaculture Activist magazine, written by a guy in Australia who uses photo voltics.

The article is titled "A Fridge That Takes Only 0.1 kW a Day".

Fact: chest style freezers contain the cold due to their design. In upright freezers the cold air runs out like water every time the door is opened. So he wondered what would happen if he converted a Vestfrost SE255 chest freezer into a refrigerator.

He bought a $40 battery-powered thermostat equipped with digital temperature display and an internal 5A/240V latching relay. The latching relay consumes battery power only during actual switching so that the thermostat equipped with it is a true micro-power device and its two AAA batteries last for many months.

"Connection is really simple. The thermostat relay cuts the power to the freezer, much like a light switch cuts the power to a lamp. The thermistor (the temperature sensor) is placed inside the freezer at the end of a thin 2-wire flexible cable. I used the freezer drain hole to pass the thermistor cable inside the cooling compartment. An alternative is to insert it from the top via the chest door. If the thermistor is left near the bottom of the chest fridge -- the minimum fridge temperature is controlled by thermostat. If the thermistor is located near the top of the cooling compartment -- the thermostat will control the maximum temperature there. The best position for the thermistor is somewhere in the middle.

"It took me about 30 minutes to make all connections. The most time-consuming part was removing the thermistor from inside the thermostat (I cut it out from the circuit board using wire clippers) and soldering it at the end of a thin two-wire flexible cable. I protected the thermistor from moisture and mechanical damage using shrink-wrap tubing and a tiny bit of silicone.

"The external thermostat can be installed anywhere on the fridge or outside it. I decided to place it on the wall behind the fridge, so that the temperature display is easy to read at eye-level.

"I have also removed the interior light bulb, rated 15 watts, because I avoid using energy-wasting devices as a matter of principle. I will consider installing LED interior illumination if I find a reason for opening my fridge in the dark.

"I set the thermostat to +7ºC (46ºF) and switched on the AC power through an energy measurement gadget called Sparometer. After about two minutes my thermostat displaced +6.5ºC and the power to the freezer was cut off. The temperature continued to drop down to about +4ºC. I thought that there was something wrong with the digital display, because everything happened too quickly. I took another thermometer, and to my surprise, ti confirmed readings of the thermostat.

"... In the first 24 hours my new chest fridge took 103Wh (0.103kWh) of energy. About 30% of this energy was consumed during the initial power up and rearranging of the fridge content... The fridge interior temperature was kept between +4º and +7ºC. The fridge compressor was working only for about 90 seconds per hour. When the thermostat intervened-- the fridge consumed ZERO power. The only active part was a battery powered temperature display.

"Results of my experiment exceeded all my expectations. My chest fridge consumes as much energy in 24 hours as a 100W light bulb does in just an hour... I have never seen a fridge that was SO quiet. It only works 90 seconds or so every hour. At all other times it is perfectly quiet and consumes no power whatsoever."

He uses stacked basket to hold foods, placing the most frequently used foods in the top baskets that slide on the top edges of the fridge walls.


Thanks for the article Susan, operating the Vestfrost SE255 chest freezer as a refrigerator i.e. around 18-20C warmer (3 to 5 C as opposed to -15 to -18C) would consume around 1/4 the power as indicated in the estimates on my spreadsheet so an annual power usage around 40KWhr per year is certainly not out of the question. The electricity running costs would be around $11 per year if used as just a basic chest refrigerator.


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#182342 - 09/16/09 05:48 AM Re: Getting Real with Solar PV Power [Re: sodak]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
OP question:

"The conclusion is that the Freezer can only be run for 8 months of year off grid. Is a partial off grid solution just to much of a compromise?"

Apparently my earlier questions were wide of the mark, so let me address the original posted question another way. What would be the criteria or standard for determining if the compromise was too much?

If economic, a cost-benefit analysis of the proposed system versus a purely on-grid system over their useful lives should suggest some answers. In the U.S. that would include original and projected costs, tax-benefits, etcetera.

If value is assigned to self-sufficiency [priceless?], then the question would seem to be, is this the best that can be done to provide freezer storage powered by off-grid sources? In my area of the U.S. for example, in addition to solar, winter winds might offer added power generation opportunities. I am also told that heat exchange setups using buried elements that take advantage of the differences between ambient below-ground and in-home temperatures can provide power, perhaps year-round.

If the question is simply does the proposed plan make sense to the OP, only the OP can answer that.



Edited by dweste (09/16/09 05:51 AM)

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#182360 - 09/16/09 02:57 PM Re: Getting Real with Solar PV Power [Re: dweste]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
I'm trying to find a decent rv fridge myself, mine is the three way, 120v, 12v, propane. Needs a $60 thermostat to get the 120v part working again but none of the three modes work well anyway. New rv fridge is $1000-$1500 compared to an $89 120v only dorm fridge form lowes or home depot.

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#182376 - 09/16/09 05:51 PM Re: Getting Real with Solar PV Power [Re: Eugene]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3221
Loc: Alberta, Canada
< "The conclusion is that the Freezer can only be run for 8 months of year off grid. Is a partial off grid solution just to much of a compromise?" >

No, I don't think so. Provided that you can afford this setup without hardship, I think there are many positive benefits.

As dweste said, it depends on your motivation. It might be a smaller environmental footprint, it might be greater self-sufficiency. Personally, I find that these two dove-tail rather nicely as long as practical goals are not overshadowed by the annoying self-righteousness exhibited by the fringe/fruitcake zealots.

I observe that you are spending your money on efficiency first and generation second. This is the right path IMO -- money spent on the consumption side always gets more bang for the buck. Efficiency also reduces footprint across the board, and puts a greater degree of self-sufficiency within reach (even if it's not 365 days a year).

As well, in the months where grid power is your primary source, you now have the solar rig as a backup in the event of storms or outages. PV panels generate power even on overcast days, and that slow trickle adds up. You may just find that with cooler weather (less cooling needed) and trickle charging from the panels, you won't need grid power all the time even in winter. Or, you may choose to run a laptop or a few desk lamps using the reduced solar output, to partially offset the grid power needed for the freezer.

So, if you can otherwise handle the cost, I say do it.




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#182451 - 09/17/09 06:32 PM Re: Getting Real with Solar PV Power [Re: dougwalkabout]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

To supplement the solar PV/refrigeration project during the winter months I'm also looking at wind generation and LPG storage and LGP generator technology. Perhaps even more outlandish than the cost effectiveness of solar PV claims are claims about how much domestic micro wind generation can save. I've seen manufacturers claims that it can save 30% on a domestical annual electricity bill. The reality is of course highly dependant on the wind avialable on site. The cost of installing a wind generator is prohibative for me for the actuall power it generates due to sheltered location. A wind generation installation is also expensive (similar to the cost of Solar PV) and requires planning permission.

A portable LPG generator might be worthwhile such as the Honda EU10i LPG portable generator for backup electricity generation if there was a grid failure.

http://www.hartindustrialtools.co.uk/acatalog/EU10i.html

A couple portable heaters running on 15Kg Butane bottles might be worthwhile to have as a backup if the electricity grid failed during the winter.

http://www.lpg-portable-heaters.co.uk/provence-living-flame-heater.htm

The cost of bottle LPG for heating is actually competative when compared to daytime electricity but about twice as expensive when compared the to the night time electricity tarrif when I use electrical storage heaters. One 15Kg bottle of LPG is enough to supply heat for around 7 days use in winter. A 15Kg bottle (almost 200KWhr of energy or 60KWhrs of generated electricy @ 30% efficiency) may be enough to produce enough electricity (intermittant generation to charge the 200A battery) for domestic refridgeration, lighting and entertainment for possibly a month.

Using an LPG generator to produce electricity in not very efficient i.e 70% will be waste heat with around 30% as electricity generated. Does anyone know of a domestic LPG generator installation which could use a heat exchanger to all least transfer some of that waste heat emission into the hot water system? i.e. a combined supplemental LPG gas heat/solar heat/Solar PV cell hot water/electricity generation system.







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#182455 - 09/17/09 06:36 PM Re: Getting Real with Solar PV Power [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
No electricity during winter has no affect on my heating :-X
_________________________
Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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