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#181207 - 09/03/09 12:49 AM Re: Not trained, what should be in my urban FAK? [Re: scafool]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
Is there a "Triage for Dummies Civilians"?
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Okey-dokey. What's plan B?

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#181224 - 09/03/09 04:33 AM Re: Not trained, what should be in my urban FAK? [Re: Compugeek]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Yes. First, call 911. Then, if their dead you move on to the next victim. If they look like their going to die from their injuries, you move on to the next. If they look like you can provide aid with what you got, you help them. If there is multiple people and you can do it, write down what you do to the victim and put it where a 1st Responder can see when they get there.

Yes this is cavalier, but its honest. You can't save everyone all the time, and you shouldn't treat outside your ability.
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#181228 - 09/03/09 08:56 AM Re: Not trained, what should be in my urban FAK? [Re: paramedicpete]
JIM Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 1032
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
Effective CPR cannot be readily performed while they are in the vehicle.


Pete


Unless you've got a corpuls in your car wink whistle
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''It's time for Plan B...'' ''We have a Plan B?'' ''No, but it's time for one.'' -Stargate SG-1

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#181230 - 09/03/09 09:07 AM Re: Not trained, what should be in my urban FAK? [Re: Compugeek]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2186
Loc: Bluegrass
Originally Posted By: Compugeek
Is there a "Triage for Dummies Civilians"?


Sure is. Holler at the top of your lungs, like you're in charge, "Everyone that can walk, meet up over here!" Then point to some highly visible landmark.

Bam, you've just gotten your walking wounded out of the way. Everyone else is dead or actually hurt.

The START algorithm is based on "30-2-Can Do." If they're breathing over 30 breaths/min, have a capillary refill >2seconds, or can't follow commands, they're either red (high acuity) or dead. If they pass all 3, but weren't one of the folks that walked to the side of the road, they're intermediate. It's that easy.

The big thing about triage though, is that you keep doing it. Everyone seems to forget (or at least not mention when we discuss it here) that it's an ongoing process. You constantly re-triage based on ongoing medical/traumatic complaints, body's decompensating, resources changing, etc.

In a real world professionally-run event, there's usually one paramedic/EMT running each triage "center" and someone over them, someone coordinating ambulances/helos, someone being gopher, people under the triage "boss" doing the actual hands-on patient care... it's actually rather complex.


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#181236 - 09/03/09 12:59 PM Re: Not trained, what should be in my urban FAK? [Re: MDinana]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
Carp, I don't want to totally hijack Dweste's excellent thread, but I really want to pursue this.

Should I repost as a new thread, and you each post your replies, or can the mods move us to a new thread, "Triage for Civilians"? Which is preferred?

2009.09.04: started new thread here: Triage for Civilians


Edited by Compugeek (09/04/09 02:57 PM)
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Okey-dokey. What's plan B?

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#182015 - 09/12/09 03:28 AM Re: Not trained, what should be in my urban FAK? [Re: ]
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2396
Typed labels might speed things up...

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#182016 - 09/12/09 03:33 AM Re: Not trained, what should be in my urban FAK? [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2396
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
[quote=dweste]

It's easy to buy gear. It's harder to get educated. Do the hard thing.


Agreed. A simple class will cover the basics in a couple of hours.

What you're really talking about here is two things: a kit to carry and one for the car or office.

the carry kit is small; meds, some band-aids, misc supplies.

with an office or car kit, just get a commercial one - spend $10-20 at Target or wal-mart and that should suffice.

But the training (and the practice and the reference book/ cards) are the key...take the class.

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#182057 - 09/12/09 11:31 PM Re: Not trained, what should be in my urban FAK? [Re: TeacherRO]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Going to my CERT application meeting next week.

Hope to get training to assist paramedics.


Edited by dweste (09/12/09 11:31 PM)

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#182094 - 09/13/09 03:42 PM Re: Not trained, what should be in my urban FAK? [Re: dweste]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Dweste, sorry I haven't followed the whole thread but

- taking CERT: realize the first aid instruction in CERT is minimal and focussed mass care triage (greatest good for greatest number). By CERT rules you will leave a fair number of injured to die, and frankly aside from some tips on applying pressure and keeping fields more or less sterile, its kind of a disjointed view of First Aid, I think CERT assumes you've had an actual First Aid course to be effective. In real life you want to have some instruction on how to keep everyone you encounter alive, since not nearly every first aid scenario is a CERT scenario. Red Cross offers a good generalized First Aid / CPR / AED course as an introduction. I heartily recommend a (2-3 day)Wilderness First Aid (WFA) course from someone like NOLS for some practical FA treatment that addresses issues outside the wilderness, such as in the event of a urban disaster when you are on your own with your patients for 24+ hrs.

- assist paramedics: this is specialized training, in the EMT-B (or C?) series. I have seen it at local community colleges, and if I have time and opportunity I might take it for background. By assisting paramedics I assume you mean you want to work as a volunteer EMT, not to be capable of assising paramedics in a rescue situation. Training is nice, but wouldn't qualify you to work with paramedics - they show up, you should be prepared to step aside.

Well, I'm just stating the obvious like a schmuck who just walked into a conversation, which is who I am on this thread, but figured I had better say it anyway.


Edited by Lono (09/13/09 03:43 PM)

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#182099 - 09/13/09 05:27 PM Re: Not trained, what should be in my urban FAK? [Re: Lono]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Thanks for taking the time to say!

My impression, soon to be better informed, is that our class 1 fire department trains willing CERT volunteers in just about everything over time, including several first aid courses.


Edited by dweste (09/13/09 05:28 PM)

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