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#179279 - 08/14/09 12:28 PM Re: McGyvering something [Re: Chisel]
Chisel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1562
This folder too
I wonder if there is a wisdom behind this ?



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#179340 - 08/14/09 06:35 PM Re: McGyvering something [Re: Chisel]
JCWohlschlag Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Sterling, Virginia, United Sta...
Originally Posted By: Chisel
Before starting my adventure , let me ask you guys about chisel-type knives you have used. I have looked at this Razel



You notice that the front edge is tilted reverse-tanto style.
I wonder if it is ergonomically correct and is the use for scraping and prying as easy as when you have it the other way (tanto style) ?

Scraping stuff with the Razel works just fine. The “reverse-tanto” front edge just makes it so you pitch the knife forward a few degrees while scraping.

Ergonomics will depend more upon what direction you are scraping, which hand you are using, body/arm/hand position, etc. The knife, itself, works just fine.

Also, the blade stock is thick enough to do some pretty good prying as long as you make sure to stay off the edge when exerting force on things.

Here is a YouTube review of that knife if you want a closer look at it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAHk-zxiVf4.
_________________________
“Hiking is just walking where it’s okay to pee. Sometimes old people hike by mistake.” — Demitri Martin

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#179393 - 08/15/09 01:25 AM Re: McGyvering something [Re: Chisel]
corpsman Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 51

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#179433 - 08/15/09 01:23 PM Re: McGyvering something [Re: corpsman]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
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- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#179447 - 08/15/09 03:43 PM Re: McGyvering something [Re: Chisel]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Just a few observations: most knives are not made for heavy prying. The ones that are tend to be very poor cutters. If the knife is sturdy enough to be used as a prybar the blade/point might be too thick to wedge it between something like a doorframe for instance.

A real prybar is never fully straight. The tip at least is usually at a slight angle. That's important because it gives you some leverage that a completely straight tool cannot. Also very helpful for getting into tight spaces and such.

Modifying a machete would not be a good idea. A typical machete is very thin and springy. Even if you cut it down it will flex too much when prying. If the blade doesn't break the handle scales will. On the other hand, a sturdy billhook or Woodman's Pal might work, very versatile, but it is a pretty large tool.

Then the question of material. The Boker Cop Tool for instance is made of 440C. As a rule, stainless steels are unsuitable for prying tools because they are too brittle and lack the necessary toughness.

All in all, I wonder whether it wouldn't make more sense to get several smaller-sized tools that would cover all your needs much more reliably (small prybar, chisel, maybe a large flat-head screwdriver... I reckon you probably EDC a good folder and/or multitool already). It would be a more reliable option, maybe even cheaper. If I had to pick just one alla-round tool though it would be the hacking knife (check out Corpsman's link).

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#179458 - 08/15/09 07:07 PM Re: McGyvering something [Re: Tom_L]
Chisel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1562
Many good points , thank you guys

OK starting from the bottom up.
Tom, I have all the tools I need: screwdrivers, knives, ..etc. but a tough and rough tool is always good to have around. I always wished I had one to hammer, chisel, pry and cut or chop something. When you are busy, I mean real busy, it isn't always convenient to go look for something to do this or that. You need a do-it-all tool in your belt for that one-second step to finish the job. I know this because I broke a multitool trying to pry something although I had a 3 ft prybar in my garage.

The hacking knife is very good and worth looking into. The chisel edge can be modified to have an angle.

Back to the Razel
The video has shown me why it is designed with the lower tip more forard than the upper tip ( reverse Tanto ). It makes the lower tip better at cutting boxes. However, I am still not sure that it is ergonomic enough to hold it straight and scrape with it unless you hold it upside down like in the film. Only in that way will the angle of the front edge be suitable for scraping.

That means I should look for a symmetrical handle, not like the one on the Razel. That way the blade can be held right side up or upside down depending on what tip is needed. The handle of most others ( like the hacking knife are symmetrical enough on both sides.

About machetes, I never thought they are soft and springy. Maybe I am not that familar with them. I only concentrated on thickness and making a machete more sturdy by cutting most of the length of its blade.

Comparing thicknesses, the hack knife is 0.25 inches while others are at about 0.075 inches average. That is a big difference.

Oh, one thing I noticed in the Razel video
On the back , the half of the spine that is nearer to the handle , there are some kind of serrations or something. What are these for ? If a Razel is that thick I don't think that was a saw on the back , was it ?


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#179472 - 08/16/09 02:04 AM Re: McGyvering something [Re: Chisel]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
If you want something from CountyComm, I'd be happy to buy it and ship it to you on your dime. If it's legal to import wherever you live and it's worth it to you to pay for the shipping.

Let me know.


_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#179475 - 08/16/09 04:25 AM Re: McGyvering something [Re: JohnE]
Chisel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1562
Thanks John, so kind of you

I started this thread trying to make something myself which I thought was relatively easy and a bit of fun.

I am drooling over your offer. However, sharps are always risky to import. You never know. I have checked around camping forums where I live and I got mixed responses . Some have bought knives and camping stoves from other countries without any problem, and some lost their goodies. IIRC the last one I read about lost a custom knife from the U.S. (ouch!)

However, you will not be let off the hook ! I am going to look into it what I can buy other than sharps and will investigate a local mail forawding company (rates ..etc. ) and will see if it is easier . Right now at this moment I don't even know how to pay you since i have cancelled my U.S bank account a few years back.

I'll look into it and meanwhile many many thanks to you .

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#179476 - 08/16/09 04:32 AM Re: McGyvering something [Re: Chisel]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
Gold doubloons have a nice look...We'll figure something out.

Where are you located?
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#179480 - 08/16/09 09:35 AM Re: McGyvering something [Re: JohnE]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Quote:
Tom, I have all the tools I need: screwdrivers, knives, ..etc. but a tough and rough tool is always good to have around. I always wished I had one to hammer, chisel, pry and cut or chop something. When you are busy, I mean real busy, it isn't always convenient to go look for something to do this or that. You need a do-it-all tool in your belt for that one-second step to finish the job. I know this because I broke a multitool trying to pry something although I had a 3 ft prybar in my garage.


I can relate to that though I've grown to realize over time that it pays to use the right tool for the job. I understand a universal do-it-all tool may be handy in some situations, maybe even reasonably effective under specific circumstances but it will always be a compromise.

IMHO you would do well to avoid the Razel. It looks way too gimmicky and I have doubts about the handle surviving any heavy prying. The hacking knife or the EOD tool are two simple alternatives, can be modified easily and would probably work for your purposes.

If you have access to a bench and/or angle grinder, maybe a drill press, you could make exactly what you need yourself.
Any suitable stock of carbon steel at least 1/4"-5mm and properly heat treated should be ok. Do NOT attempt to modify a file - they tend to be very hard and barely tempered at all so a file will surely break if subjected to any lateral pressure. Also, the teeth tend to be so hard they will take a heavy toll on whatever grinding tools you're using in short order. A short bill hook or similar pruning tool would be a better choice, tempered a bit softer and shouldn't be to difficult to modify. If all else fails, a section of a leaf spring is easy to find, it's already tempered just right. Of course, you will need to cool the steel while working so as not to ruin the temper. If you have the means and knowledge to do your own heat treating then so much the better.

Anyway, just my 2 cents from an amateur jack-of-all-trades and part-time bladesmith. smile Good luck whichever option you pick eventually.

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