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#177285 - 07/22/09 06:43 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Tjin]
Tyber Offline
Sheriff
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 292
Loc: ST. Paul MN
As said above, the windshiled is lamanated and even if you can shatter them you still need to break out the window.

The truth is that a serated knife might have gotten through the window faster (the saw part cutting away att the lamanat).

The fastest way to resolve that issue would be a saws all. I said it, a good battery powered saws all woudl have made little work out of the window. a close second would ba a good hatchet or axe. A final third would be the Grit blades on, I think, Gerber, but any of the saw blades that are on multi tools would cut/shatter there way through that front window.

Somthing I haven't seen mentioned here is GLOVES. they would have been able to man-handle the window at the very least had they had gloves. Once the window was smashed there were serveral moments lost, becouse they couldn't move the glass.

If I may be so bold as to sugest the following things to be in our cars, granted most of you probaly have them.

Gloves
Fire extinquisher
Axe, saws all (yes I carry one), something to cut lamanted glass
knife (probably already in your pocket)


if you are a HUGE rescue person you can purcase this tool http://www.extrication.com/glasmaster.htm But it is costly and it will make short work of the front window.


Just ideas from a silly person.

Eric

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#177291 - 07/22/09 07:14 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Lono]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
One problem you have is that most people do not know how to use an extinguisher properly.

What happens is that they give the fire a little squirt, expecting the fire to go out.

Does not happen.

So they give it another squirt.

Same result.

And another, and another, and and other.

Result: empty extinguisher and you still have a fire.


Fire requires three things to exist:
1) Heat.
2) Fuel.
3) Oxygen.

This is commonly known as the "fire triangle".

Extinguishers work by removing one or more sides of the triangle. Either the heat or by depriving the fire of oxygen.

When you attack a fire, you are seeking to overwhelm it. So you must look at the fire. Determine where the base of the fire is and attack it accordingly.

Most Powder and C02 extinguishers operate for about 20- 30 seconds. That is a long time.

Also have a look at this: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fire-fighting-petrol-foam-extinguisher.ogg

THis is how NOT to do it. He should have given it one long burst. Not two short ones.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#177293 - 07/22/09 07:21 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: KG2V]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Bucks County PA
1, A spring tool is useless on front and most back windshields.

2. the way they got in to the windshield is exactly how I would have done it if that was my situation. I am a certified "advanced" auto extrication technician.

3. If they had gotten a little more help yanking that windshield out (just PULL the f'ing thing out after breaking it - the gasket comes out) - that kid would not have had severe burns on 30% of his body. He would have been burned but not as badly.

4. Hollywood hurt that kid. there were people expecting it to "blow up" so they stayed back - the tank was already ruptured and the fuel was leaking out and burning off. The "pops" at the end are the tires blowing out. it sounds like a .22 magnum.

5. I'm surprised that the firefighters didn't have a knife of their own.

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#177296 - 07/22/09 07:37 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe

Fire requires three things to exist:
1) Heat.
2) Fuel.
3) Oxygen.

This is commonly known as the "fire triangle".



Actually, these days, they refer to the Fire Tetrahedron
1) Heat.
2) Fuel.
3) Oxygen.
4) A Sustained Chemical Reaction

Anyway...

Yes yes yes...keep spraying until the fire is out. If you see someone with an extinguisher, and you can bring another one - DO IT. Don't worry about the mess. And - just FYI - water (in sufficient quantities) will put out a car fire.

One other thing - at the end of the video - did you hear them - "spray the kid spray the kid" - water cools burns.

Hopefully you'll NEVER be in this situation...but you CAN do something about it. A little prep and a cool head.

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#177298 - 07/22/09 07:40 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Tyber]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3556
Loc: Spring, Texas
Quote:
If I may be so bold as to sugest the following things to be in our cars, granted most of you probaly have them.
Gloves
Fire extinquisher
Axe, saws all (yes I carry one), something to cut lamanted glass
knife (probably already in your pocket)


Very good point and may I add have them where you can get to them quickly (though securely restrained in case of your own crash).

Right now my leather gloves and wrecking bar are locked up in the bedbox of my truck. blush I'll be moving them tonight. At least my spring-punch is in the glove compartment.

-Blast
_________________________
Blogging the Borderlands
Wild Edibles Blog
I miss OBG.

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#177300 - 07/22/09 07:49 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Blast]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4510
Loc: SOCAL
I have a spare set of nomex flight gloves that don't match my flight suit (color coordination is important wink ). That spare pair will go into the console with the knife and rescue hook.

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#177307 - 07/22/09 08:39 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Russ]
JIM Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 1029
Loc: The Netherlands
I EDC a Benchmade mini-griptillian, but also a lot of equipment in the car:



As you can see there's my trauma-bag, tools and fluids, wool blanket, GHB and an old firefighter-jacket with gloves. Also somewhere in there there's a floodlight, warning-triangle and crowbar.

Driver set-up:



Cheapo LED flashlight and Benchmade 7-hook mounted on the seatbelt.

_________________________
''It's time for Plan B...'' ''We have a Plan B?'' ''No, but it's time for one.'' -Stargate SG-1

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#177316 - 07/22/09 09:42 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: JIM]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA

The one thing we should all think about is that the force of the crash is going to potentially throw everything about. We should consider steps to aid in the prevention of rescue tool migration.

-john

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#177319 - 07/22/09 10:15 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: MartinFocazio]
ki4buc Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
And - just FYI - water (in sufficient quantities) will put out a car fire.


What's the deal with hybrids/electric cars these days? I remember reading some detailed instructions on the web a few years ago. The big concern was the HUGE amperage potential in the batteries and no "off" switch per-se.

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#177324 - 07/22/09 11:20 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: MartinFocazio]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2810
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
1, A spring tool is useless on front and most back windshields.

2. the way they got in to the windshield is exactly how I would have done it if that was my situation. I am a certified "advanced" auto extrication technician.

3. If they had gotten a little more help yanking that windshield out (just PULL the f'ing thing out after breaking it - the gasket comes out) - that kid would not have had severe burns on 30% of his body. He would have been burned but not as badly.


Most windshields are not held in by a gasket anymore. My FIL does auto glass, they have all kinds of fancy tools now to remove windshields. They are held in place pretty much by glue/sealant and you cannon remove them without cutting that glue, and its a lot of work to cut that glue/sealant all the way around to get the broken windshields out.

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