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#177223 - 07/22/09 01:26 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Knife
Fire extinguisher
Leather gloves

Have them in your car always.

This is NOT a criticism of the rescue or rescuers that took place, but I think its interesting the number of bystanders who essentially did nothing - there was even someone so detached from the burning car that they were able to film the entire incident. This matches with my experience at a couple fairly grisly accident scenes: they don't see a way in, they don't see all the victims, they don't see a way to help the victims they know of, they are afraid of moving a victim from a burning car. I'm not critical of the bystanders, I think they basically didn't have a starting point (training and experience) for dealing with this emergency. Some people had good instincts - they saw a victim that had to get out of the car pronto, and started bashing the windshield and trying to get it out of the way. But I don't have any experience in removing a windshield either, and apparently its hard. Lucky for the firefighters arriving on scene, they at least have experience and didn't hesitate to move more glass out of the way.

Its a good scenario to ask yourself though, knowing what you know, knowing what you have in your car, where would you be if it happened today - working on the windshield, wielding a fire extinguisher, or taking the time to film this, or running away because you're afraid the car is about to explode? (they don't, at least not like on TV).

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#177226 - 07/22/09 01:59 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Lono]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: Lono
This is NOT a criticism of the rescue or rescuers that took place, but I think its interesting the number of bystanders who essentially did nothing - there was even someone so detached from the burning car that they were able to film the entire incident. This matches with my experience at a couple fairly grisly accident scenes: they don't see a way in, they don't see all the victims, they don't see a way to help the victims they know of, they are afraid of moving a victim from a burning car. I'm not critical of the bystanders, I think they basically didn't have a starting point (training and experience) for dealing with this emergency. Some people had good instincts - they saw a victim that had to get out of the car pronto, and started bashing the windshield and trying to get it out of the way. But I don't have any experience in removing a windshield either, and apparently its hard. Lucky for the firefighters arriving on scene, they at least have experience and didn't hesitate to move more glass out of the way.

Its a good scenario to ask yourself though, knowing what you know, knowing what you have in your car, where would you be if it happened today - working on the windshield, wielding a fire extinguisher, or taking the time to film this, or running away because you're afraid the car is about to explode? (they don't, at least not like on TV).


Lono,

Your comments go for large portions of our population.

I once put out a car fire in the parking lot of my graduate school. A classmate came in, somewhat in a panic, used a phone to report the fire. I overheard her, walked toward the parking lot, knowing there was an extinguisher along the way, grabbed it, got to the car, put out the fire. It was really no big deal, except for the woman and her husband (also a classmate) because the fire destroyed the car.

A number of other classmates watched from the library windows and asked afterward how I knew what to do. Truthfully, I am still somewhat amazed that these intelligent people did not have an idea about what to do. The instructions for the use of an extinguisher are right there on the extinguisher. Everyone I have known has seen them time and time again, and I know of no one who has not read them once in a while. So it baffles me, why people would have no idea what to do. My thought is that they do but cannot reach that information in their brains when under pressure. Thaqt's what practice and training is all about.

And your suggestion as to asking yourself what you would do is right on. That's a pretty much practice I learned while in a maritime academy, always be asking yourself such questions. What would you do if _______ occurred? Keep switching a differnet thing going wrong into the blank. When something arises that has gone wrong, you might have already gone over the potential incident in your mind. But at any rate, you've trained yourself to think about incidents.

Sometimes you also need to train under pressure, so you can handle it too.

When you've trained the right way, the training takes over, your mind is prepared to handle the pressure, analyze what's happening, think about how to solve the problems, and take action.

For those who haven't ever done anything like this, they can freeze and not take any action.

And as far as the original title of this thread, YES, a thousand times YES, always carry a knife.

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#177230 - 07/22/09 02:22 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: KenK]
Doug_SE_MI Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 35
Loc: Michigan
Windshields are not to break. To extricate through a windshield use a good knife to cut the rubber seal and lift the windshield out. Yes, it takes time and tools.

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#177251 - 07/22/09 03:34 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Doug_SE_MI]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Originally Posted By: Doug_Botimer
Windshields are not to break. To extricate through a windshield use a good knife to cut the rubber seal and lift the windshield out. Yes, it takes time and tools.


If you google the Swiss Army Rescue Knife they show how to do this in the video, as well as cutting the class with the knife. (Probably wouldn't advice cutting it, looks super dangerous)
_________________________
Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#177265 - 07/22/09 04:05 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Todd W]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5207
Loc: SOCAL

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#177266 - 07/22/09 04:09 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Russ]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Originally Posted By: Russ


That's it.

I think it's an amazing tool but not something that would warrant an EDC as it's rather limited to the specific tasks it's designed for.

_________________________
Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#177277 - 07/22/09 04:49 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Todd W]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Want an easy windshield breaker? Get one of the "General Tools" (or other brand) spring loaded center punches

Heck - here is the harbor freight version

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=621

http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-Bearing-Automatic-Center/dp/B00004T7RD

You'd be surprized the number of rescue folks who carry one
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#177278 - 07/22/09 05:00 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: KG2V]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1760
Originally Posted By: KG2V_was_kc2ixe
Want an easy windshield breaker? Get one of the "General Tools" (or other brand) spring loaded center punches

Heck - here is the harbor freight version

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=621

http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-Bearing-Automatic-Center/dp/B00004T7RD

You'd be surprized the number of rescue folks who carry one


Centerpunches only work on side windows (unless they are laminated). They are useless for the windscreen (=laminated).

As far carring a knife. It's a delicant balance between scaring people and having a good knife with you. I don't fancy getting fined or arrested for carring a knife. But lifehammers and resqme's are quite effective.

Mine experians with cutting seatbelts is cut at a angle. Not at 90 degrees. Much easier and smoother.
_________________________


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#177283 - 07/22/09 05:52 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Tjin]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Are The Netherlands really strict on knife carry?

_________________________
Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#177284 - 07/22/09 06:23 PM Re: CARRY A KNIFE. ALWAYS. EVERYWHERE. [Re: Todd W]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Getting a kid out of a 5-point carseat harness can be a problem. When you release the center buckle, the shoulder straps still form a loop over each arm. If you panic and try to pull the kid out by the arms he isn't going anywhere.

There is also the sternum buckle which are all different. It could be hard to figure out by touch inside a dark, smoky car.

I always have a knife but I'm re-thinking the need for a dedicated belt cutter. Something large and easy to hook and slash with like the Lifehammer of Gerber LMF safety knife. I'd hate to drop a ResQme inside a burning car laying on its side.

I rolled my pickup on its side when I was a teenager. My first thought after stopping was "Crud" and my second was "The windshield is broken, maybe I can bust my way out through it." Reason prevailed and I decided to use the topside door. Luckily a bystander hopped up there to hold it open.

Useful tidbit I learned is that the steering wheel makes a good foothold for climbing out.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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