Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 3 of 12 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 11 12 >
Topic Options
#175792 - 07/08/09 12:35 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Blast]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4461
Loc: SOCAL
Thinking about DC and the events that could trigger a mass evacuation, a big hurricane ain't it -- that might be a go home early or don't go to work event, but not a mass exodus. By the time it moves that far inland a Cat 5 will be a Cat 3, lotsa rain and flooding at lower levels with storm surge near river level, but nothing to trigger a mass move to W.VA.

A man-made event could trigger it, but for that there would be little to no warning and the goal would be to move upwind.

Dagny,
What specific events do you see triggering such an evacuation and how much forewarning do you expect? Congress and the W.H. will have the most warning and will be long gone before the word gets to the general population.

Don't know your living situation, but unless you live at the level of the Potomac, I'd prep to bug-in or to have some strategic withdrawal points around town that would be "upwind". If you do decide to leave pack quickly and leave. You really won't have time to coordinate with your neighbor, triage his stuff and pack. Just load your pre-packed stuff into the Element and Go.

Top
#175793 - 07/08/09 12:52 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Russ]
Tyber Offline
Sheriff
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 292
Loc: ST. Paul MN
Dagny, you pose a very good, and old, question.

Much like you I am inclined to help people; I have don SAR and EMS for over 12 years, and not for the glory of it. (Though the fun red and blue lights are a good perk, LOL). The question of rescuing more people in lue of gear is not entirely how I look at it.

I have lived in areas where my neighbors would have stolen my truck from me if given the chance rather than work with me. If memory servers correctly there were unconfirmed reports that Katrina refugees were stealing from there hosting families. There is still the point that if you have the resources you should try to help some people, meaning pick those that you will help make a plan to involve them and bring them with you. This way you’re not picking up random strangers on the side of the road that you have no history with.

Given the opportunity I would take a preparedness drive and see how many side and back roads. Maybe power lines or dirt roads you can find. Seek out the roads that are unappealing to the average driver and you may find a route that will be longer in miles but NOT in time or gas. Perhaps carrying a bit of extra gas may pay off also. Google maps will pay off in spades on this.

The Honda element isn't what I would call and SUV. Yes, it has 4x4 and will go great in the snow. But hardcore off reading it may break, or lack the clearance. But dirt roads and some reasonable power lines you should have no problem. Keep in mind that a Ford Explorer has about 7 inches of cleanse.

I have to agree that what is being sold as an SUV/4x4 is not what I would like to take off road. Stock tires, and suspensions are made for highway driving and looking cool. Conversely do you really want to be rock crawling or taking on class 5 off road trails when you are evacuating? If you ventured up the, "old mountain pass" road that requires a supper lifted or modified or even a seriously modified vehicle and you get stuck, guess what, no one is going to come pull you out. If you have a winch, well that may help, a little.

The truth is that if you find a series of less appealing roads to the average driver, you will be more likely to not see traffic. But as you review these alternative routes ask yourself if you can take them when the weather is bad. Also I will pose the question, who said you couldn't drive on the grassy strip between the highways?

To sum it all up, I would say bring people, chose them wisely remember that the complexity of anything is not simply increased for every person you involve but expediential increased for every person you add. Also remember that being prepared is being ahead of the lemmings.



FYI, Honda element 2010 has 6.9 inches of ground clearance.


Edited by Tyber (07/08/09 12:56 PM)

Top
#175794 - 07/08/09 01:02 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: benjammin]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Originally Posted By: benjammin

As the saying goes, cash, grass or a$$, no one rides for free. This is especially so in a crisis situation. I have enough room for me and mine, anyone who wants watashi-wa to share better square up and pay the bounty with something I need or they walk.

I agree! +1 on your post.
_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

Top
#175795 - 07/08/09 01:03 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Tyber]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2810
You also want to look at driving range. The smaller "SUV"'s like an Elemnet may get 20-25mpg but typically have a smaller than 20 gallon gas tank. The frame based SUV's and trucks may top out at 20mpg but will have a 25 gallon or larger gas tank so they can go longer distances. Some of the smaller v6 SUV's top out at 20mpg empty then drop significantly when loaded where a v8 based truck or suv will top out at 20mpg but will only drop 1-2mpg when loaded so you need to factor that into account as well.
Also remember some of those Element like SUV's are unibody or uniframe so a minor fender bender will put them out of commission where a body on frame vehicle can usually keep going. Chances are when people are ignoring laws while running for their lives they may not care if they bump into you.

When I moved last year one of my criteria was being outside the outerbelt. I work and live outside the city outerbelt mow so I didn't want to be living inside it like before. If I ever did have to evacuate I don't have to take the major highway, I can take side roads and get around traffic.

Top
#175796 - 07/08/09 01:12 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Tyber]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
It is up to the driver to know the capabilities of their vehicle, what it can or can't do, and to stay within those capabilities. The same vehicle may not be able to do the same with different drivers.

What does my passenger have to ofter that I may need, will make a difference as the whether they go or stay, room permitting. Another deciding factor is "Do I trust them" either with my life, vehicle or stuff.

Pre-planning is a must in my book. Know who you are willing to take well in advance, and establish guidelines/requirements on what they are to bring with them.
_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

Top
#175797 - 07/08/09 01:13 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Dagny]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
The reality of evacuating the WDC area is not feasible. The major evacuation routes even during non-critical times are a nightmare. Frederick, which is in the WDC evacuation plans as a relocation destination, is really only accessible via 270. On a good day, 270 is backed up. No less during an emergency. While there is limited mass transit out of the area, the number people requiring evacuation though the use of mass transit far exceeds the capacity of the system to handle. Unless you evacuate early, sheltering in place is the only option possible. For evacuating the WDC area, a 4X4 is pretty much useless.

Pete

Top
#175798 - 07/08/09 01:28 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: paramedicpete]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
For evacuating the WDC area, a 4X4 is pretty much useless.

Pete

Many years ago, I looked at the C&O Towpath as a way out of DC.
_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

Top
#175802 - 07/08/09 01:59 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Russ]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1890
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: Russ

Dagny,
What specific events do you see triggering such an evacuation and how much forewarning do you expect? Congress and the W.H. will have the most warning and will be long gone before the word gets to the general population.



The most plausible situation where I can foresee mass evacuation -- officially sanctioned or not -- is a dirty bomb. The initial blast would be survived by 99.9% of the population but the specter of invisible radiation would freak the rest of us out. I'd certainly be inclined to leave for awhile -- heading west toward the mountains where we frequently camp and where I have a trailer in storage.

I live a few blocks from one of the two major targets.

If I thought about it much I'd have to move. Many of us here assume something bad will happen someday but obviously don't expect it to happen in the next second or this day, or we'd be hitting the road by lunchtime. 9/11/01 was a perfect beautiful blue sky morning. No one imagined at sunrise that day that the Pentagon would be smoldering at sunset.

I posted this query because it is an interesting moral question. Most people in everyday situations, including me, are generous and quick to help. But depending on how such a crisis played out, there could be all kinds of reactions. Most people, I'd guess, haven't given this any thought at all and even those of us who have can't know for sure how we would react in a situation that hasn't unfolded.

It certainly argues once again for being as prepared as possible to grab-and-go. And to be very strategic in packing in advance, because we may well have to make a choice between a box of stuff, a cooler, and a neighbor who wants a lift (with their own stuff in tow, no doubt).

And which neighbor(s)? Would I just grab my dog and purse and take off? Would I check on all my friends? Take the first neighbor who asks for a lift, who I may or may not know well?

99% sure I'd check on my friends (all of whom have cars but may not have much gas) and acquaintances who live on my block. This presumes we're all home when whatever happens.

Something to think about.

I'm encouraged by memories of 9/11, when the roads -- including side streets -- quickly clogged, but drivers were remarkably calm and at least in my neighborhood obeying the traffic lights and stop signs. Perhaps everyone was in shock. Most had a very strong urge to get home -- commuters left ASAP and those of us who live here communed with our neighbors (I took three strangers in for a couple hours, one of whom was hyperventilating in front of my house, having been yelled at by police to run as fast and far as possible - leaving her car in her office garage). My home was walking distance and my car was actually in lock down and inaccessible. This city, on the busiest commuter day of the week - Tuesday - emptied out within a few hours. An unorganized mass evacuation of hundreds of thousands of commuters (residents mostly stayed). The freeways were deserted by late afternoon -- a motorcycle cop that evening told me it was eery.

Let's hope it never happens. Preparation can only go so far.



Edited by Dagny (07/08/09 02:16 PM)

Top
#175803 - 07/08/09 02:09 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Dagny]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4461
Loc: SOCAL
Dagny,
Speaking of shotguns. . . do you have one? Maybe a pistol in 9mm (or bigger).

Top
#175805 - 07/08/09 02:38 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Russ]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1890
Loc: Washington, DC
Russ,

Because of where I live, if I did I wouldn't say so on the Internet. And I wouldn't say if I did not.

I will say that I have a couple canisters of bear spray and an axe (and a hatchet) with which I am quite handy and fit nicely behind the front seats.

And were fireams such as you mentioned within reach, I do know how to use them. I grew up in California and Oregon, daughter and grandaughter of men, and women, who believed in the right to bear arms and practicing regularly.


Edited by Dagny (07/08/09 02:41 PM)

Top
Page 3 of 12 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 11 12 >



Moderator:  MartinFocazio, Tyber 
August
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online
0 registered (), 261 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John_Sarnik, slimshady, ss729, Ratch, earlgrey
5213 Registered Users
Newest Posts
New Heating / Cooling device
by hikermor
Today at 03:46 AM
Solar eclipse, anyone?
by dougwalkabout
Yesterday at 11:33 PM
British Columbia is Burning
by dougwalkabout
Yesterday at 09:21 PM
Recommend me a good book!
by leemann
Yesterday at 05:03 AM
Boating gear
by TeacherRO
08/21/17 08:01 PM
Nuclear Targets-What are they?
by wildman800
08/21/17 03:27 PM
What did you do today to prepare?
by Phaedrus
08/21/17 04:39 AM
Fishing Line for PSK
by wildman800
08/20/17 07:21 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.