Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#174214 - 06/02/09 11:04 PM Re: Is your stuff really secure? [Re: LED]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: LED
So what do you guys think is the best deadbolt lock for the average person? Medeco? From the article I don't remember them saying it could be bumped as easily (if at all) as your average lock from home depot. I understand security is an all inclusive package but a new doorlock wouldn't hurt.


Best thing to do would be to talk to a local reputable locksmith and see what they recommend and stock. You wouldn't want to buy a lock that can't be fixed or re-keyed locally, if the need ever arises. I would hesitate to recommend a specific lock for that reason.

Talking to a local locksmith has the added benefit of them possibly being able to offer security advice in other areas, as well as helping tailor specific products to your needs.

With that said, I can add a bit of simplified knowledge that may help you in your decision:

There are a few different standards that locks are tested to.

First, there is the ANSI 156.5 scale. This scale goes 1-3 with 1 being the highest. Presently, the best stuff you'll find in a typical house is Grade 2. Grade 1 is for commercial applications (i.e. Similar to a Grade 2 lock, but made to be stronger, last longer, and more resistant to brute force attacks.)

Next, there is ANSI 156.30. This is a bit stricter standard, where the focus becomes less on how well the lock is made and more on how actually secure the lock design is. This also has three grades C-A. Grade C adds basic pick resistance and harder than average to find key blanks. Grade B and the separate UL-437 standard go hand in hand, as they both require the same amount of picking resistance (at least 10 minutes under testing) and use blanks that are protected by law. Finally, grade A is the top. This requires picking resistance for at least 15 minutes and has heavily restricted keys/keyways.

For retrofitting a home, what you'll typically use as high end security is Grade 1 hardware with a Grade B/UL-437 cylinder (unless you have a door that can accept higher grade mortise locks). While this isn't the best, it's still head over heals better than what most people have and will stop or slow down thieves used to defeating common door locks.

On a side note, neither standard currently requires any resistance against bumping, however an ANSI 156.30 lock does have some inherent resistance to this method, as bump keys are typically harder to procure. So again, a cylinder that meets at least grade B/UL-437 is still going to be reasonably secure.


Now, just as an example, the following manufacturers are common in the U.S. and offer a wide variety of locks that can meet these standards:

Medeco
Assa
Mul-T-Lock
Everest Primus (by Schlage)

With that said, it's still best to talk to a good locksmith. If your door or door frame is weak or installed incorrectly than you may not even truly get any benefit of upgraded lock hardware.

Top
#174247 - 06/03/09 03:34 AM Re: Is your stuff really secure? [Re: Paul810]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Thats some serious information there Paul, thanks.

Top
#174257 - 06/03/09 05:19 AM Re: Is your stuff really secure? [Re: Paul810]
yelp Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 172
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Paul810
On a side note, if you want to learn more about locks and security check out this forum: http://www.lockpicking101.com/ Alternately, if you find yourself in Las Vegas this summer check out DEFCON 17 (which is a convention revolving around hacking and security).


Tobias has done multiple lectures at DefCon, the videos and / or notes of which are legally available online.

http://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-archives/dc-15-archive.html

Look for:

"High Insecurity Locks Lies and Liabilities" - some mention of Medeco

The original link I had bookmarked is 404'd, so searching in / around the site for the following will be fruitful (also by Tobias), not to mention the intelligent use of Google.

"Open in 30 Seconds Cracking one of the Most Secure Locks in America" - all about Medeco

"Opening Locks by Bumping in Five Seconds or Less Is it Really a Threat to Physical Security" - some mention of Medeco

"Physical Security Bypass Techniques" - don't remember if it mentions Medeco or not, but it is a discussion of bypass by one of the best in world.

There's more good stuff in the DefCon archives by other speakers.

But as most have already replied above, basically all security can be gotten through - just a question of resources. The general point is to be a more difficult target than your neighbor...and if somebody's bypassing a properly installed Medeco-what-have-you lock to get at you and / or your stuff, you've got other kinds of problems.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT:

Found a live URL to the DefCon Media Archives, with all available content from DefCon 1 (1993) through present day available for legal viewing and download, just for all you history buffs.

http://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-archives.html

One might also google for "last HOPE" (2008, New York City) videos - if I remember correctly, there was an excellent physical security talk on high-security locks.


Edited by yelp (06/03/09 08:32 PM)
Edit Reason: found URL
_________________________
(posting this as someone that has unintentionally done a bunch of stupid stuff in the past and will again...)

Top
#174292 - 06/03/09 03:10 PM Re: Is your stuff really secure? [Re: yelp]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
I have no idea what the best deadbolt would be if I was not home. I would guess one that is locked as I think most B&E would occur through an open door or window.

Being in a room however, like say a hotel room or guest room at a house, i use a $3 door wedge forcing the door into the frame, rather than holding it open. it prevents people walking in when there is no lock. If someone could pick the lock or bust the door down, the wedge will not slide, thus the door literally needs to be folded in half to get inside. More than enough time to figure out a defense.
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.

Top
#174339 - 06/04/09 11:13 AM Re: Is your stuff really secure? [Re: comms]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
The one time my house was broken into, they actually broke down the solid wood door - jamb partly ripped out - cops said it looks like someone went at the door with a crowbar - the then current MO!

They want in bad enough, they will get in. In college, I hung around with a locksmith

2 "Interesting" calls - One was a call - the STEEL door had one of the Medico "drop bolt" locks - no big deal - the theifs took a sawsall to the door!!! The locks were still locked, still hanging there - the Apartment (in Manhattan) was cleaned out

The other? They broke into the apartment next door, and punched a 5 ft tall, 3 ft wide hole through the cinderblock wall between apartments!
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

Top
#174359 - 06/04/09 06:14 PM Re: Is your stuff really secure? [Re: KG2V]
yelp Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 172
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: KG2V_was_kc2ixe
The other? They broke into the apartment next door, and punched a 5 ft tall, 3 ft wide hole through the cinderblock wall between apartments!


Guess that there's the counter-example to being a more difficult target than your neighbor...
_________________________
(posting this as someone that has unintentionally done a bunch of stupid stuff in the past and will again...)

Top
#174361 - 06/04/09 07:29 PM Re: Is your stuff really secure? [Re: yelp]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
My method of security involves having the crappiest-looking house on the block.

Top
#174391 - 06/05/09 12:35 PM Re: Is your stuff really secure? [Re: KenK]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
I will second that method; it seems to have worked for us so far grin.

Pete

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, chaosmagnet, cliff 
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
Who's Online
0 registered (), 509 Guests and 64 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Explorer9, GallenR, Jeebo, NicholasMarshall, Yadav
5368 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Bird Flu (H5N1) found in cattle -- are Humans next
by dougwalkabout
Today at 04:00 AM
People Are Not Paying Attention
by Bingley
Yesterday at 03:24 AM
Corny Jokes
by wildman800
04/24/24 10:40 AM
USCG rescue fishermen frm deserted island
by brandtb
04/17/24 11:35 PM
Silver
by brandtb
04/16/24 10:32 PM
EDC Reduction
by Jeanette_Isabelle
04/16/24 03:13 PM
New York Earthquake
by chaosmagnet
04/09/24 12:27 PM
Bad review of a great backpack..
by Herman30
04/08/24 08:16 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.