OK, I'm sick of chasing posts...we vote to kil or keep LTS subforum - voting closes Sunday night.

Where is the LTS subforum?

This was LTS (Long Term Survival) I believe, but it changed up a bit in name and direction. It's now "Natural Disasters & Large-Scale Emergencies".

Perhaps we should change the name and focus to "increasing your self-sufficiency."

Then we can still talk about good stuff like gardening and water storage and solar panels and generators without going "doomie and loony." (He says, hopefully.)

My $0.02.

+2 more cents

IMO this place could do with a little more heat. If you want people to bring light you have to be able to deal with some moderate amount of friction, heat and smoke.

That is not to say that it has to be a free-for-all but short of shouting matches and flaming there is the lively debate and normal discussions of the subjects heretofore forbidden. Subjects that tie in with survival if only indirectly. If you want to have people visit often and contribute they have to be able to say what is on their minds and do so without fear as long as they stay within the limits of civil discussion. If you want the good stuff you have to put up with some nominal level of friction and the voicing of strong emotions.

But then again, this isn't my forum so do as you wish.

I'll be honest- no opinion.

The long term items were discussed as part of the general forum just as well as they were on their own. Some people really want them on their own because of concerns that it would swamp the 72 hour kits and the like. I think the fine dividing line will be when is a post on long term preps go into the survival subforum, and when does it fit better in the campfire. I can see things like generators, fuel storage and solar panels in the survival subforum, while gardening goes to the campfire IMHO.

Hard call. I would not say that the experiment has failed. I will say that EVERY prepardness forum mod's job is harder right now than I'd like it to be- it is a nutty season.

Maybe another moderator or two could help if you feel overwhelmed?

I like the LTS and very much enjoy reading. Maartin, if it is too much to handle, perhaps an aditional or differen't Moderator is needed.

As a newbie, there is a wealth of information available in the LTS area. Granted it's available in books, other forums, what have you...but I joined this site because it seemed the most informative, mature, and down-to-earth. There may be a surge in like minded people lately, (I'd like to know the number of new people like myself who have joined just this year). It's not so much the economic times, just a desire to be more prepared. Living in Florida, preparedness is always on my mind, so any wisdom I can absorb from the sages is very welcome.

I rarely read this forum. The majority of the topics here don't interest me that much as the other 2 main forums. I could take it or leave it...

Um, I'd like to see some more debate about this. What do you see as the problem with the subforum? What will happen if it is closed? Will threads about 5+ days be allowed in the other subforums, or will subjects such as bug-out versus bug-in be off-topic entirely?

I visit a few times a week and hadn't noticed a lot of off-topic posts.

Well, we can discuss it as much as you want. Here's the bottom line.

The people that are posting there seem to enjoy it. I don't know the volume of complaints you're receiving, so if it is excessive, then shut it down. This whole forum group has been designated as a publicly viewed area used by educators and such so if it is offending in part, then excise the part.

It's up to the owner, not the users. If we didn't want it, we wouldn't use it, so asking if it should be removed seems superfluous. Either make an executive decision, or leave it be. It's really up to you.

I'm not tryng to be critical Martin, just stating what seems obvious. To paraphrase a statement, if it seems like a burden, then it probably is.

Maybe instead of "changing" a post that goes off the rails, just put it in file 13 if that is quicker?

Once someone realizes their post has had the magic eraser applied to it (them), they will re-read the rules and comply.

Why not just close down all the forums? That would solve the problems of having opinions here, and you wouldn't have to worry about politics, gun fans, knife fans, survivalists, aluminum foil hat people, zombies or anything else.

Of course, it would cut down on the advertising for ETS, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Sue

If you kill this forum, the controversy will just move to another. So instead of having to moderate one, you'll get two.

If ETS wants to grow then the forum shouldn't shrink.

Every forum I've participated in ends up having a broader discussion area because it is normal human behavior for conversations to broaden -- especially as people get to "know" one another and become a community.

The best threads are conversations.

I'm now wondering if I'm a culprit because I posted on Peggy Noonan's column about general anxiety in the populace. That's a fact that's creeping into a lot of conversations these days.

I confess to not regularly reading the rules. Had thought the Armageddon-TEOTWAWKI subject the big bugaboo. Didn't think I'd transgressed in that way but perhaps I slipped on the slippery slope.

Cut this sub-forum and I think ETS is less interesting.

That's my 2 cents, unadjusted for future inflation.

Hmm, I guess in my mind it comes down to a question of the "vision" of these forums.

If the ETS forums are seen primarily as a community where the members need and want to broaden conversations to suit their mood... then leave it be.

If the ETS forums are seen primarily as a place to educate, then by default they take a "stand" on issues... in this case close it down if needed to curtail unwanted discussions.

Personally, I see ETS as more of a place that educates, passes (appropriate) judgements, and takes a stand on issues. And I think that's a good thing.

Finally, I worry that with all of the uncertainty and fear out there right now, that even people exercising "healthy" discussions here can add to the overall crush of negativity. Not intenionally, but by joining the bandwagon it's an unintended consequence. Perhaps a sharp refocusing right now is not a bad thing...

I'm rather indifferent. I come here for more of a short-term focus. When I'm thinking about long-term scenarios and zombie invasions, I go other places. That said, this is a place for rational discussion without deviations into contentious tangents. I know people appreciate that. I don't know that they have all found other places to discuss long-term considerations.

One of the main reasons that I started coming to Equipped To Survive is the 99+% civility and great wealth of freely shared quality information that is presented in a positive manner.

It is true that this site is used by people of many different age, cultures and background / educational / life experiences and it is interesting to see other ways of addressing the subjects that are discussed. I generally try to cruise through the various recent threads on all the forums when I have a chance to visit and while I don't always agree with some things that are posted, I respect others rights (and certainly Doug's permitting and facilitating the same) in a civil manner.

It is understood that it can be quite a load on the moderators and fully appreciate the fact that they often handle many things behind the scenes in addition to what we see on the public side of the house.

As for me, I voted to continue and that we can all behave ourselves. In the final analysis, this is Doug's site and he can do or not do anything that he likes in regards to operating it.

Bottom Line for me is that Doug and the Moderators will need to make a call as they see fit. If having their attention and focus is diluted by having to handle too many balls being juggled at the same time, then there are two immediately obvious options, drop the most problematic forum/s and/or add moderators. I have no problems with the moderators going through and locking down and/or excising posts that jump the tracks of civility and forum rules.

In any event, I fully support Doug's ultimate decisions.

Regards,
Comanche7

I also support 'doing whatever needs to be done.' Poll or no poll, make the call and see it through.

I can certainly understand why a sub-forum that tips toward the fringes might be more of a liability than an asset to someone in Mr. Ritter's position.

I'll also respect any final decision.

That said, if it is closed, I hope some of the more useful threads will be archived somehow. I haven't had time to read them all yet...

Martin, can you give me a minute ?

I voted for keeping the LTS, but even that is not satisafctory enough for me.

You see , ETS is not only a place to get together and discuss, it is also an on-line library of some kind. In it I have found some very interesting info and insights and I am sure many others have done the same.

To be better as a "library" I was always hoping for someday that DR or moderators would add another sub-forum and another and another. I wiahed for a subforum on :

- Health
- Gardening
- Alternate energy ( solar, wind ..etc. )

Yes, the search function can help us dig such threads among the endless pages , but a more structured and better organized forum was much better at presenting such subjects and better at helping us finding what we need.

During my memebership time, I was amazed to see things develop in such a direction (structure-wise) and even today I am still amazed. The vote here is to keep or kill lTS, but no one votes on keeping or killing another sub-forum which seems like ( picture gallery and to some extent the book borrowing section) . For the number of stickies you have in the first two sub-forums, you could add the threads in these last two as stickies, and no one will notice the disappearance of those microscopic sections

I know, this is not what you are complaining about . It is totally different stuff. I know. But this is how I see it from my angle.

Flaming and nasty stuff can be filtered using the help of a few more moderators. Is that what you are asking about ? I can dare propose the names of Blast, Susan , Izzy, and Benjamin are among the many members who can help greatly.
Many others are out there too.

My proposal here is to shift this subject from a vote on LTS, to a more comprehensive discussion of the restructring of ETS sub-forums.

Quite right, it might be a lot easier to ask for help than to draw a line.

I would also agree that removing this forum would only push the traffic you're trying to regulate to one of the other two.

Maybe it is time to consider an overhaul of the whole ETS forum area. If it's unmanagable in it's present form, there are other options that would be easier to monitor, manage, and still provide the sort of public outreach as was originally intended.

In the end it is still up to you my friend. Your solicitation for our opinions is appreciated, but it is still your call to make.

Is that the question? Or is it more a matter of deciding what topics we educate and stand on? I get the impression that Doug himself was originally only focussed on short-term incidents such as surviving light-plane crashes until rescue. Dealing with 3-month power cuts could be seen as off-topic even if it doesn't attract political discussion.

Personally I'd rather it was on-topic. The discussions have value.

It really boils down to what Doug wants. If he feels the posts in the LTS section hurt the overall goal of the Equipped Foundation then it needs to be shut down. The huge importance of that work overshadows the truly minor importance of this LTS section of the forums. I can easily see some airline/marine corporate gunslinger pulling out crazy quotes from this forum and saying, "Look at what Mr. Ritter believes! Do we really want to implement the crazy and EXPENSIVE ideas of such a crackpot?!"

I think a lot of us have forgotten or don't know the amount of time, effort, and arguing Doug puts into trying to make this a safer world. We see/know this forum and think it's the whole enchilada. In reality it's just the free chips they give you while you are waiting for the meal.

-Blast, who loves the LTS section, but doesn't want it to hurt Doug.

You're right, Blast, and that was a good point there. Let's just leave it to the forum owner.

Everyone -

Very thoughtful responses to the issue, and all are appreciated. Doug contacted me and asked me to not do anything to the forum in terms of deleting it, and the vote was perfectly clear.

I'd like to point out that more than a few of you made the connection between this site and the Equipped to Survive foundation - I think that this is an important thing to remember - there's a non-profit organization at the heart of this site and that organization's mission can be furthered or hindered by the subject matter and tone of discussion here in these very public forums.

As I like to remind people, Google indexes this site about every 90 seconds. Here's how to tell.

At 7:00 AM, March 23rd, while I was writing this post, searching Google for xptrrtiddfggeeww
- a string of random gibber - yielded no results. By the time you read this, a few minutes or hours from now, that gibberish will be in the Google index. Within a day or so it will be visible to the public. This site is closely monitored and generates a LOT of looker traffic as well as participants.

So when I see a post about something as simple as rainwater collection management, I expect a discussion of capture and distribution techniques, tried and true methods, innovative new thinking and so forth. I don't expect a discussion of Colorado laws on rainwater collection. If you don't see the difference, then you don't understand what this forum is all about. Similarly the inevitable gun discussions. It is possible to have a neutral discussion about guns. Really, it is. As long as you're discussion centers on the mechanical aspects of a gun, and never drifts from that central thesis, it's going to go fine.
Gardening topics? Almost the same as guns. Talk about the garden, not why you're making a garden. Ask about keeping the rabbits out, ask about what's good and easy to grow where and when. Don't bring economic Armageddon into it. We don't need that here.

So, the forum lives and I step aside to let it grow and flourish, and, to carry the gardening metaphor, I will be vigilant in the removal of noxious weeds that crop up in our idea garden.

That is all.

Martin Focazio
Your Cruise Director