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#168882 - 03/07/09 12:29 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: scafool]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
I think that, regardless of how you feel, attacking someone personally by name calling just isnt right. Honestly, name calling is the last resort of someone who cannot articulate their argument. But, you DID articulate yours. Others have disagreed without the name calling; I fail to see why you cannot. I am not trying to be mean here; I am simply stating that you have your opinion, which you are entitled to, as is everyone else. You werent verbally attacked, yet you insulted people who have a different opinion than you. Then, in your next post, you state how they should be on equal footing (the beginnings of PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER.; all set with that). Yet, you continue with the namecalling with others who dont agree with you. That is being hypocritical. You lose all credibility with the name calling. Your point may be valid; your argument, however, is not.
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#168899 - 03/07/09 07:47 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Hookpunch]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2117
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Hookpunch
Les recommends a bowline...which I doubt I would trust with modern rope like nylon, I would suggest a buntline hitch instead,

A bowline is a loop. A buntline hitch is a hitch. The two types of knots server different purposes so you can't really compare them. A bowline is not my personal favorite loop knot, but it's not a bad knot, especially if finished off with a safety overhand or tied in one of it's more secure variations ("water bowline", "Eskimo bowline", "double bowline", etc.) A buntline hitch is not my favorite hitch either. They are usually secure enough (depends on rope material and diameter you are hitching to), but they can be quite difficult to untie.

Quote:
I think he should have also shown how to tie two ropes together, a sheet bend knot for example.

I'm not trying to be picky, but a sheet bend is not a very secure knot. There are many many other stronger and more secure bends. Sheet bends are OK for low risk mundane jobs though, if you don't really need security in the knot. But they spill easily.

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#168900 - 03/07/09 07:48 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: oldsoldier]
Troglodyte007
Unregistered


I appreciate what scafool said. oldsoldier, you could be 100% right, but I doubt it. Although, I do appreciate your words.

But, to try to reason with the likes of Russ and Tom_L would be like trying to make shiahaita edible; it's just not something I want to try to do.

I apologize for taking the thread off-topic.




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#168911 - 03/08/09 01:50 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: haertig]
Hookpunch Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 128
Originally Posted By: haertig
Originally Posted By: Hookpunch
Les recommends a bowline...which I doubt I would trust with modern rope like nylon, I would suggest a buntline hitch instead,

A bowline is a loop. A buntline hitch is a hitch. The two types of knots server different purposes so you can't really compare them. A bowline is not my personal favorite loop knot, but it's not a bad knot, especially if finished off with a safety overhand or tied in one of it's more secure variations ("water bowline", "Eskimo bowline", "double bowline", etc.) A buntline hitch is not my favorite hitch either. They are usually secure enough (depends on rope material and diameter you are hitching to), but they can be quite difficult to untie.

Quote:
I think he should have also shown how to tie two ropes together, a sheet bend knot for example.

I'm not trying to be picky, but a sheet bend is not a very secure knot. There are many many other stronger and more secure bends. Sheet bends are OK for low risk mundane jobs though, if you don't really need security in the knot. But they spill easily.


I meant using a bowline versus a hitch to secure to something...say pulling a dinghy, I prefer the buntline to the bowline, and just cut it loose after wards.

So which hitch do you recommend?

Which bend do you recommend then if not the sheet bend?


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#168912 - 03/08/09 01:59 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Hookpunch]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: Hookpunch


Went through the book, and though Les knows more about me on most subjects, I have to say the section on knots is a bit lacking.

Les recommends a bowline...which I doubt I would trust with modern rope like nylon, I would suggest a buntline hitch instead,


I think he should have also shown how to tie two ropes together, a sheet bend knot for example.

I suggest that everyone should learn the knots listed here.

http://www.4thtyldesley.co.uk/knots/


A bowline has worked for me with almost any fiber, manilla, nylon, dacron, etc.

The more knots one knows the better. Knots are like tools. One mightdo the job, but it's better to have the right tool or knot for the job.

If I was limited to knowing only three knots, the knots would be a bowline, bend for tying two lines together (double becket bend), and a hitch (two half hitches and around turn).

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#168914 - 03/08/09 02:29 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Hookpunch]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2117
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Hookpunch
So which hitch do you recommend?

I can only state my personal favorites. Everyone has their own favorite(s) based on what criteria is important to them.

My favorite hitches are the ground line hitch and the ossel hitch. Depending on the type of rope, what you're attaching to, etc., one of these two usually performs wonderfully and the other one often times doesn't work as well. I also often use a slipped constrictor knot as a hitch, even though that's considered a binding knot rather than a hitch. If you don't slip it, it's pretty much a permanent hitch - not wanting to be untied at all! I consider the buntline hitch you mentioned to be an very good hitch too, except that it's almost impossible to untie if it's gotten wet and been pulled tight. The hitch I use the most (because it fits the one specific job I do the most - tying up horses) I found in a knot book by John Shaw. He calls it the horse dealer's hitch, or something like that. The horses never get it undone with their teeth, and a quick pull on the slipped loop frees them immediately (while still leaving one wrap around the post you're hitched to so you can control them). That is a very specific use for a knot and most people don't need this functionality.

Quote:
Which bend do you recommend then if not the sheet bend?

My favorites are the zeppelin bend, the very similar riggers (or hunters) bend, and a little known gem named the shake hands. I have only seen the shake hands described in one book - by Geoffrey Budworth.

If you like sheet bend style bends because you're joining dissimilar ropes, look at the simple simon (and variations, especially the simple simon under). These appear to have the similar heritage to the sheet bend, but are more secure.

For loop knots, you can't go wrong with the angler's loop or the double dragon. If you need a loop that tends to keep itself open in a circle rather than an oval, the Eskimo bowline works well. I finish this bowline variant off with a safety overhand to add security if necessary

Tying instructions/videos for most of these knots can easily be found by just typing their name into Google.

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#168937 - 03/08/09 07:46 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Russ]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: Russ
Originally Posted By: Troglodyte007
. . . you are perceived by many as a favoritist homo seeking sympathy for the fact that Bear can approach survival with more of an SERE outlook than you can. . .
I don't recall being able to take the night off and sleep in a hotel during SERE. It was a long time ago, but that's something I think I'd remember. When did you go through SERE? Did you stay in a hotel at night?



S.E.R.Eis Survival. Evasion. Resistance. Escape .

Which this is not.

This is S.T.B.R.

Survive To Be Rescued.

In SERE you do not want to be found.
In STBR you do.
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#168949 - 03/09/09 12:19 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
Troglodyte007
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
Originally Posted By: Russ
Originally Posted By: Troglodyte007
. . . you are perceived by many as a favoritist homo seeking sympathy for the fact that Bear can approach survival with more of an SERE outlook than you can. . .
I don't recall being able to take the night off and sleep in a hotel during SERE. It was a long time ago, but that's something I think I'd remember. When did you go through SERE? Did you stay in a hotel at night?



S.E.R.Eis Survival. Evasion. Resistance. Escape .

Which this is not.

This is S.T.B.R.

Survive To Be Rescued.

In SERE you do not want to be found.
In STBR you do.


I disagree. When I watch Bear I get that he is moving from one place to another and not at all awaiting rescue. I do not think he is teaching SERE skills, but like I said before, what he is doing is applicable to them, which is being able to survive on the move, having "more of an SERE outlook" as I already said. Bear has a military background which is apparent in his survival strategy of finding his own way out and which reminds me of SERE. Other than the possiblity that there may have been a few episodes I didn't see where he makes camp and awaits rescue somewhere, I don't know what you are talking about.

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#168953 - 03/09/09 02:12 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
I don't recall being able to take the night off and sleep in a hotel during SERE. It was a long time ago, but that's something I think I'd remember. When did you go through SERE? Did you stay in a hotel at night?


Quote:
S.E.R.Eis Survival. Evasion. Resistance. Escape .



There are of course some hotels around where some SERE skills are required. The Silver Rock in Barbados comes to mind. eek And even in some excellent 5 star luxury hotels I have ended up spending the night out in a location such as a rocky outcrop, without any shelter, with no food and water in the middle of a island in the hotel pool. blush






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#168963 - 03/09/09 11:52 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

There are of course some hotels around where some SERE skills are required. The Silver Rock in Barbados comes to mind. eek And even in some excellent 5 star luxury hotels I have ended up spending the night out in a location such as a rocky outcrop, without any shelter, with no food and water in the middle of a island in the hotel pool. blush

That was brilliant!


Edited by Mike_H (03/09/09 11:52 AM)
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