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#168425 - 03/02/09 05:19 PM Re: Something to Think About... [Re: paramedicpete]
YBZ Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/10/03
Posts: 21
Loc: Canada
When these tapes are played on television or radio they are meant for one thing only: To keep that viewer or listener on that channel. The old saying always stands true for any type of media: If it bleeds, it leads.

News programs are becoming less news and more TMZ.

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#168429 - 03/02/09 05:41 PM Re: Something to Think About... [Re: Susan]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: Susan
If it was the People's right to know, it would be in the Constitution.


Hmm...

By that logic, the Internet, telephones, television, radio, cell phones, ham radio - well, pretty much everything not mentioned in the constitution specifically - falls outside of the domain of the constitution. The "right to know" is, in fact, a part of the 5th and 9th Amendments, and the right to privacy is (supposedly) covered in the 4th amendment.

I'll tell you why I favor the release of 911 tapes.

It's because of a woman named Brenda who lived not far from me.

Brenda had cerebral palsy, and was confined to her bed.

Brenda smoked in bed, not a great idea, but smoking isn't illegal in your own home.

Well, one day, Brenda found herself in bed, and the bed was on fire. She called 911. The operator - who took a call for a WORKING FIRE - put her on hold. She burned to death.

From an incident report:

http://www.911dispatch.com/db/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2340&Itemid=484

"After the answer delay was discovered, there was speculation the delay might have contributed to her death. An investigation into the incident led to the Bucks County 911 center, where officials said on Feb. 13th that 10 dispatchers were on-duty and performing no work tasks when the 911 came in--they had "no reasonable explanation" for not answering the 911 call, officials said. Four supervisors on-duty at the time took no action to correct the situation, county officials said. County director of emergency communications Brent Wiggins told reporters that Orr's call rang six times, and that her call was put on hold for another 27 seconds by the male dispatcher. Wiggins appeared at a press conference to give a timeline of the events, the findings of the investigation and corrective actions. "

About a year later, stung by the news reports, and further screw-ups on the part of the 911 dispatchers here, Bucks Emergency communications attempted to block the release of 911 tapes to the media. Yes, it's ugly to have 911 calls as "entertainment" but you have to take a lot of bad to make sure there's accountability from your public services. I can assure you that the level of "1984" style surveillance on citizens in this country is most unwelcome when the cameras and recorders are turned back on the watchers. I could go on about a lot of subjects about the constitution and how powder and projectiles are the way to keep the government in check and I'll counter that perhaps the most powerful weapon in the battle for personal freedom is the cheap digital camera:

Cop Fired After Shoving Bicyclist to the Ground:
http://www.truveo.com/YouTube-Video-Forces-NY-Cop-Off-The-Job/id/288230386942773129

Cops Shoot Unarmed Man in the Back
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Video_shows_police_shooting_man_laying_0105.html

Cop Beat 15 Year Old Girl for "assault" with a cell phone:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7917295.stm

It's not just cops (my brother is a cop, I don't have an "thing" for catching bad cops, it's just these are in the news now).

I worked in Public service for 6 years as a volunteer firefighter. I was willing to accept a higher level of scrutiny (in fact I wish there was even more of it in general) when I was the president of the fire company, I welcome scrutiny while performing services, I think that an informed and intelligent populace who watches - closely - over how the services we all pay for are delivered is a free society.

Secrecy is almost always bad policy in government, there are very few situations where the public does not have a "need to know" anything they want about anything their elected and appointed and hired government workers are up to.



Edited by martinfocazio (03/02/09 05:44 PM)
Edit Reason: Spelling fix

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#168435 - 03/02/09 06:28 PM Re: Something to Think About... [Re: MartinFocazio]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
A few years ago, ETS received a 'cease and desist' letter from representatives for Aron Ralston. Readers will recall Aron was the solo hiker who amputated his own forearm.
Aron turned misfortune into publicity and a book deal, something many would give their right arm for in our culture.
But in doing so, Aron forgot that PUBLICITY by it's nature demands public reaction. The 'genie was out of the bottle.'
911 calls are a TAXPAYER funded service. They are not subsidised by later commercial use. There is no disclaimer or waiver of my right to privacy recorded before I speak to an operator.
Societies have ALWAYS held limits to information; from secret initiation rights into wo/manhood to the confessional and non disclosure agreements of employment.Celebrities are fighting for a balance between publicity and papparrazi flying overhead trying to photograph a pair of exposed breasts.
I'd comment further, but a pair of young lady scientologists are knocking on doors. My APT complex has a sign posted warning of tresspassing, but they seem to have ignored it. Dropping my jeans and BVDS as the bell rings.

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#168443 - 03/02/09 07:44 PM Re: Something to Think About... [Re: paramedicpete]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
Maryland may have their own rules about getting access to 911 tapes, my point was and remains that it has nothing to do with HIPAA.

And with all due respect, calling a 911 dispatcher a health care provider is a bit of a stretch no matter what their training is. Even if one were to call them that, HIPAA doesn't apply. A quick overview of the DHS's HIPAA website will confirm this.

John E
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#168444 - 03/02/09 07:50 PM Re: Something to Think About... [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: Chris Kavanaugh
AThe 'genie was out of the bottle.'
911 calls are a TAXPAYER funded service. They are not subsidised by later commercial use. There is no disclaimer or waiver of my right to privacy recorded before I speak to an operator.


Neither is NASA, neither is the national weather service, neither is the Interstate Highway system....

Look, you can have all your secret man-clubs, and all that.

Don't use my tax money for it and that's fine by me. You take a dollar from me and spend it, 9 times out of 10, I deserve to know what that money was used for, no matter what. The 911 calls - you know what, while my last post was a bit of a bash on the 911 operators, do you know how many BS calls they get a day? I'd like to see THOSE released as well - people calling and reporting a barking dog. People calling to complain about the food at Mc Donalds. Waste is a 2 way street. You can't complain about government waste if people think government services are limitless resources. I'd be happy to see the name and address of some jerk who abused 911 - and a copy of their call - posted to the internet. They deserve it.



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#168447 - 03/02/09 07:59 PM Re: Something to Think About... [Re: MartinFocazio]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I am sure glad I am not important enough to warrant anyone wanting to listen to any 911 call I am in.

Regardless, it seems to me a moot point. In this day and age, there can no longer any reasonable expectation of privacy. Anyone who really wants to hear what you said can do it easy enough. Information control is just an illusion, one I've pierced many, many times.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#168449 - 03/02/09 08:24 PM Re: Something to Think About... [Re: JohnE]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
In Maryland EMT-Ds are considered health care providers and are part of the overall EMS system. Any and all EMTs/EMT-Ps are bound by HIPPA if their jurisdiction has cost recovery through ambulance billing fees. Field providers are required to have every patient, guardian or patient representative sign a HIPPA release form. The release allows for obtaining payment from the patient’s insurance company.

Pete

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#168451 - 03/02/09 08:32 PM Re: Something to Think About... [Re: benjammin]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Victorian mores were outraged when telephones were installed in homes. IMAGINE! outsiders actually entering one's english castle!
Then people became angry when answering machines came into use. IMAGINE! not being in direct contact with the party!And now we are part of this collective termitorium with things sticking out of our ears and talking into air. My crazy aunt used to do that, the one who climbed onto the roof in storms with a flashlight to warn ships in the San Fernando Valley.
I value my privacy. To that end I have ignored much of this new Big Brother 24/7 saturation of connectivenes.The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled off was convincing people he didn't exist.
I've had people complain I can be hard to contact. Sometimes, I give them pause as to why they wanted to.
To hear this message in Spanish press 2
to have this message repeated press 4
to speak to a live operator( in Mumbai with an unitelligable acent) press 7
To contact Chris Kavanaugh send a postcard
I'll get back to you

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#168454 - 03/02/09 09:03 PM Re: Something to Think About... [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Bingo!
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#168457 - 03/02/09 09:42 PM Re: Something to Think About... [Re: benjammin]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Okay, so I guess next time I am in trouble I will just log into Facebook or Twitter and leave a 3rd person comment. "Comms is stuck at mile marker 181 on the I-10. With flat. Send help."
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.

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