Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 6 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
#165787 - 01/31/09 12:07 AM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: scafool]
2005RedTJ Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 475
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
I differentiate between the 2 quite easily. For me, camping means throwing the cargo rack on my Jeep and loading it down. I've not yet got into backpacking, so I have no experience in that style of camping.

My camping experiences always involve a big tent, EZ-Up canopy, 2 sleeping bags, a propane heater with 20-pound tank, a queen-sized air mattress, full-size pillows and everything else I can think of to make my weekend comfortable. Then again, my campsite is roughly 10 feet from my Jeep, so I don't have to hump all that stuff on my back.

That said, I have been getting tired of carrying so much stuff and am leaning towards paring down what I carry. But, I want to start off with little steps and not just jump off the deep end. I'm waiting for summer to try my hand at camping sans tent, just using an ultralight tarp.


Edited by 2005RedTJ (01/31/09 12:08 AM)

Top
#165819 - 01/31/09 04:56 AM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: scafool]
duckear Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 477
Originally Posted By: scafool
Again we come to the point Canoedogs made in the 4th comment back.
At which point does it quit being an emergency kit and become a camping kit?


Exactly.

Are people starting to carry a spare sleeping bag????

Being prepared for EVERY possible contingency can get to be a bit ridiculous.

The most basic shelter is a waterproof and windproof barrier. Insulation is nice, but can be compensated for by utilizing an external source of heat such as a fire or chemical heater. For years that bit of kit was a disposable poncho, bit of plastic sheeting, or a mylar space blanket. Now, the AMK Heatsheet is the best minimum bit of shelter kit that is reasonable to carry 100% of the time when off the beaten path.

Top
#166375 - 02/04/09 09:29 AM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: duckear]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 531
Loc: UK
I've wondered how to always have a sleeping bag with me, given the problem that:
down bags lose 64% of their insulation if kept compressed for 6 months.
synthetic bags are bulky.

I've got (I think) a partial solution. Halve the bulk and weight of a synthetic bag by only only using it as a top. Like some manufacturers do, e.g 'Big Agnes'.

If I get a sleeve for a mat sewn onto the bottom of a sythetic bag (Wiggys come to mind since they are guaranteed to never lose their loft and even the people who find Jerry Wiggy an obnoxious jerk admit he keeps that promise). Wouldn't that mean I could use a bag a lot lighter than the one recomended for the temmperatures I'm sleeping in?).
With the right material I'll also add a waterproof base to the bag :-).

Questions:
This seems too simple. Am I missing something?
Does any other manufacturer guarantee their bags never lose their loft?
QJS

P.S apologies to whoever it was took exception to me asking why he was blaming the USAs problems on a president who'd been in the white house 13 days. He shouldn't have said it in the first place but I shouldn't have risen to the bait either.

Top
#166384 - 02/04/09 12:55 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: quick_joey_small]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
Scafool & Canoedogs are right; your emergency kit is just that; for EMERGENCIES. When you start carrying legit shelter gear, ie sleeping bags & full tarps, you are crossing into the realm of backpacking. Now, IMHO, that isnt a bad thing; if you pack for an overnight, even for a day trip, then you're hedging your bets for a worst case scenario. Some people are more comfortable with that, and thats fine. No one here will discourage you from carrying what you want (provided it wont kill you...). For me, just to reiterate, I carry in my pockets a PSK, a small FAK, bandana, and heatsheet. I also carry a multitool and at least one other knife. Around my neck I have a whistle, matchcase w/small compass, tiny flashlight, and a ferro rod, on 8' of paracord. This stuff is with me, at all times. I ALSO carry a camelback MULE, with more stuff in it (pics in the gallery). Its ALL emergency kit; but it is broken down in to worn/carried. If I were hiking on longer trails, I would likely swap to a true daypack; however, I hike in familiar areas, and am comfy with what I carry. I would say the stuff in my pockets/around my neck is EMERGENCY gear; the stuff in the pack is "just in case".
_________________________
my adventures

Top
#166393 - 02/04/09 02:12 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: oldsoldier]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Wiggys lamilite will regain almost full loft within a short time after being removed from compression packing. The website gives exact particulars.
All I know from personal experience is they work.

Top
#166407 - 02/04/09 04:01 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
quick_joey_small Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 531
Loc: UK
I wrote to Wiggys and Jerry Wigutow promptly replied that my idea wouldn't work:

it would actually be 'detrimental to the function of my bags'

'If you use a waterproof layer on the bottom of the bag you will get condensation and then water. If cold enough the water will freeze.

'a waterproof material that has the capacity to be vapor permeable [does not] exist.

oh well it seemed a good idea at the time.
QJS

Top
#166412 - 02/04/09 04:28 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: quick_joey_small]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
'If you use a waterproof layer on the bottom of the bag you will get condensation and then water. If cold enough the water will freeze.

'a waterproof material that has the capacity to be vapor permeable [does not] exist.


I've never had this problem when using a British Army 58 Pattern Down bag. This has a waterproof base built into the bag. Hmm Sounds like Jerry hasn't heard of Goretex or any of the other waterproof MVP materials that other manufacturers such as PHDesigns can provide as an upgrade to their bags.

http://www.ludlowsurvivors.com/sleepingbag.html




Top
#166416 - 02/04/09 05:05 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
Goretex, in my opinion, has limted uses, at best. First, by the time the air gets to the goretex layer, it has cooled considerably. goretex needs a good temp variation between the inner layer & outer layer to work. Second, by the time it gets to that layer, how much has already condensed on the insulation itself? It doesnt magically pass by the insulation fibers, without condensing, until it reaches the barrier. Goretex is way overhyped, and hasnt proved worth its cost, to me anyway. Not to say I dont own goretex gear; I own alot of it. But, it is more market hype than reality.
Now, that being said, I DO have a goretex bivy. And, it HAS been 100% weather proof for me. It excelled in this area (freezing rain, I was perfectly fine). However, if the bivy bag wasnt free, I likely would have gone with a different bivy. However, I have yet to use it in warmer weather (above freezing), so, I dont know how it would perform there. My experience, and the experience of others I know & respect, is that goretex works outstanding when the temps are at or below freezing: provided you regulate your core temp via zippers, cuffs, etc. For bags, below freezing, they are great as well. Anything for much above freezing, I have other, lighter jackets, that work wonders, at a third the cost, and with minimal venting. For bag protection, I will simply take a tarp. Pertex treatment on my bags work wonderfully, even after a couple years worth of use. Adding goretex to a bag is unecessary weight, and makes the bag less pliable.
_________________________
my adventures

Top
#166418 - 02/04/09 05:48 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: quick_joey_small]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1164
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Originally Posted By: quickjoeysmall
I've wondered how to always have a sleeping bag with me, given the problem that:
down bags lose 64% of their insulation if kept compressed for 6 months.
synthetic bags are bulky.

I've got (I think) a partial solution. Halve the bulk and weight of a synthetic bag by only only using it as a top. Like some manufacturers do, e.g 'Big Agnes'.

If I get a sleeve for a mat sewn onto the bottom of a sythetic bag (Wiggys come to mind since they are guaranteed to never lose their loft and even the people who find Jerry Wiggy an obnoxious jerk admit he keeps that promise). Wouldn't that mean I could use a bag a lot lighter than the one recomended for the temmperatures I'm sleeping in?).
With the right material I'll also add a waterproof base to the bag :-).

Questions:
This seems too simple. Am I missing something?
Does any other manufacturer guarantee their bags never lose their loft?
QJS

P.S apologies to whoever it was took exception to me asking why he was blaming the USAs problems on a president who'd been in the white house 13 days. He shouldn't have said it in the first place but I shouldn't have risen to the bait either.


I would like to see where you get your information about the
down losing its insulative value. My wife has an inherited
REI down bag that is near 50 years old that is very much
in good shape. Tests have shown that down reaches it peak
insulation value when somewhat compressed in use too.

As far as Wiggy's bags go, we ordered several hundred of his
Ultralight 20 degree bags for Outward Bound. They lost loft
and got cold by the end of the summer season just like the
Slumberjack bags of the same temperature rating. And the
slumberjack bags cost less.

Top
#166419 - 02/04/09 05:49 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: quick_joey_small]
ducktapeguy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
Originally Posted By: quickjoeysmall
I've wondered how to always have a sleeping bag with me, given the problem that:
down bags lose 64% of their insulation if kept compressed for 6 months.
synthetic bags are bulky.

I've got (I think) a partial solution. Halve the bulk and weight of a synthetic bag by only only using it as a top. Like some manufacturers do, e.g 'Big Agnes'.

If I get a sleeve for a mat sewn onto the bottom of a sythetic bag (Wiggys come to mind since they are guaranteed to never lose their loft and even the people who find Jerry Wiggy an obnoxious jerk admit he keeps that promise). Wouldn't that mean I could use a bag a lot lighter than the one recomended for the temmperatures I'm sleeping in?).
With the right material I'll also add a waterproof base to the bag :-).

Questions:
This seems too simple. Am I missing something?
Does any other manufacturer guarantee their bags never lose their loft?
QJS


I don't think you're missing anything. I believe that some Ultralight thru hikers use a down quilt type of sleeping arangement to save on weight. Something similar to this.

http://www.nunatakusa.com

As for the loft, I haven't heard of any manufacturer that guarantees their insulation never to lose loft. I've never tried a Wiggys, but if they do perform as well as they claim, it seems like a great idea. I am a little skeptical though since none of the other manufacturers have been able make such a claim. I kinda compare it to those hydrogen generators for cars or miracle fuel saving devices, if it really did perform as good as it claims, you have to wonder why the other companies aren't jumping on it.

Top
Page 6 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
December
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
Who's Online
3 registered (Doug_Ritter, Jeanette_Isabelle, Phaedrus), 309 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Knobco, KennethCopeland, manimal, Sherette, ohmysan
5328 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Any shortages where you are?
by clearwater
04:29 PM
New bag thinking: BOB GHB realism
by Roarmeister
12/02/20 05:45 PM
New purchases?
by Roarmeister
12/02/20 05:22 PM
Question from planet Mars
by Chisel
12/02/20 04:36 PM
Single bowline on the bight* soft carabiner
by TonyE
12/01/20 02:37 PM
"survival kit" is a misnomer...
by Johno
12/01/20 01:42 PM
Boring gear
by Herman30
12/01/20 10:31 AM
GPS maps??
by AKSAR
12/01/20 02:20 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.