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#166323 - 02/04/09 12:32 AM Re: best way to bug out - by water? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
scafool Offline

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
Kindasorta like this ???

I think he means more like this,
sailer vs ferry
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

#166324 - 02/04/09 12:35 AM Re: best way to bug out - by water? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
Kindasorta like this ???

OOOoooh, Maersk's (the line that runs the blue vessel) P&I rates went up after that one. Maersk ships are distinctive in that they are that color. Judging only by the video clip, the Marsk ship probably had some more risk in the litigation that followed. However, I'd guess that both ships were found to have some responsibility, as seems to almost always be the case.

#166325 - 02/04/09 12:37 AM Re: best way to bug out - by water? [Re: scafool]
OldBaldGuy Offline

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
That may be more like it...

#166328 - 02/04/09 01:03 AM Re: best way to bug out - by water? [Re: Dan_McI]
bilojax Offline

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 36
Originally Posted By: Dan_McI
DesertFox, your boat presents options because it's a real boat. I'd feel very comfortable taking a boat that size up either the East of North (Hudson) Rivers, and a lot more local places. It's not something DW would want to live aboard for a night, but if you had to, it's possible. It would be the heck out of a sea kayak, inflatable or not.

bilojax, flood presents dangers because the water leaving the flooded area is going to be moving, possibly darned fast. If you do not have experience handling a vessel in that kind of a current, I wouldn't want to be in the boat with you.

Oh, you were talking about current speed when you warned about flood levels. True, that could catch some people by surprise, if they weren’t prepared for it. It’s probably worse on the ‘Sippi than on most other rivers, because of the sheer volume and the man-made straight-aways. I’ve got some data from the USACE that indicates current speeds could approach 12-14 MPH in the sweet spots at record flood levels – that’s incredibly fast for water moving on a big river.

In my hypothetical bug-out from Memphis, I would love to have flood conditions, the bigger the better. Remember, the biggest hazard to me in that situation is encountering hostiles, either on the bank or in boats on the river (I’ll call the latter “pirates”). If the banks are under water that eliminates that part of the threat, and a faster current makes my transit downstream faster so there’s less time for pirates to find me. If pirates do spot me in flood conditions, I’ve got a much better chance of getting away because I can travel shallow areas where they don’t dare go, and there are more of those areas at flood. Also, in a big flood I can get into the trees and have some shelter from long distance gun fire, while continuing to travel downstream.

As for your situation in NYC, I still think a sea kayak would provide better options than a motor-boat would for a properly skilled paddler.

If there’s not a country-wide breakdown of law and order, then I agree your best bet would be to hook up with someone like DesertFox, and motor on down to Delaware on a 26-footer (provided somebody closer when the SHTF doesn’t steal the boat first). However, if the whole nation is lawless then there are going to be pirates all over that area, and a 26-foot motor boat is going to be more of a reason to get shot than a tool to help you survive. With a boat like that, you can’t hide, you can’t run it up on shore and drag it inland if someone is chasing you, you can’t creep across shallows in the dark of night. You need a dock to park it, and you’re going to need a gas pump every second day to keep it going.

By contrast, if you had a sea kayak and the skills to handle moderately rough seas in it, you could still cover enough distance to effect an escape – 50 to 70 miles per day is very doable for a few days of hard paddling, so you could be in Delaware Bay in 2 days. But you would be far less attractive as a target for pirates, as well as much harder to catch. And you would have more options for where to go next and what to do for food when you got there.

By the way, a sea kayak and an inflatable kayak are very different boats. The word kayak gets overused, I know it’s confusing. In the boating world, a “sea kayak” is a hard-shell, purpose-built craft designed to travel fast (7-10 MPH) and to handle rough seas in all weathers, but it requires a high degree of skill to operate it. By contrast, the term “inflatable kayak” covers a range of mostly recreational, slow (2-3 MPH), easy-to-use “mini-rafts” that are narrow enough to be propelled by a single person sitting on it and using a kayak (double-bladed) paddle. They’re fairly stable and easy to use in calm water, but they’re trouble in waves and especially surf.

An inflatable kayak might give you an escape route if you can launch into Long Island Sound, provided the Connecticut coast stays pretty tame (both weather and political disturbance-wise) and your destination lies somewhere between there and Cape Cod. But you won’t be able to go south, and from what I’ve heard, you’d never make it out of NY Harbor if you tried launching from Manhattan.

#166331 - 02/04/09 01:23 AM Re: best way to bug out - by water? [Re: scafool]
bilojax Offline

Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 36
For some good sea carnage, search You Tube for "Greenpeace rammed". There are several big ship collisions, a couple Zodiac versus twice-as-big-Zodiac crashes (including one cool run-over), and a couple big ships narrowly missing little zodiacs.

I'd put up links but there are a bunch of them. Let me know if anybody is interested but can't find them.

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