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#165730 - 01/30/09 04:55 PM Midwest ice storms
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2514
cnn story

Latest on this - over 1 million still without power, half in Kentucky. Some without water.


Edited by TeacherRO (01/31/09 07:02 PM)

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#165736 - 01/30/09 05:46 PM Re: Midwest ice storms [Re: TeacherRO]
Bear_Claw_Chris_Lapp Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Sector 16
Here's my car, we live about 35 minutes north of paducah, KY.




I went to Wal-Mart today, and a friend that works there told me that for days, they have been swamped by folks from KY coming as far as 80+ miles away, looking for Propane and anything to carry kerosene in. They even cleaned out the store of outboard boat motor tanks at $25.00 apiece and only hold 2.5 gallons.



Edited by Bear_Claw_Chris_Lapp (01/30/09 05:47 PM)
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#165747 - 01/30/09 06:52 PM Re: Midwest ice storms [Re: Bear_Claw_Chris_Lapp]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
If they clean out the Kerosene remember that *odorless mineral spirits paint thinner* is just a bit better grade of Kerosene.
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#165752 - 01/30/09 07:25 PM Re: Midwest ice storms [Re: TeacherRO]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/weather/01/30/winter.weather/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Interesting to see that the Grayson County Emergency management communications centre is having to rely on 'cold war relic' 1970s corded POTS telephone handsets.

Are they really talking about more than a month to get the electricity power grid backup? frown

I guess everyone should take emergency planning authorities advise for a 3 day home kit as being rather hopelessly optimistic.


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#165757 - 01/30/09 08:09 PM Re: Midwest ice storms [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Oklahoma
When Oklahoma went through this a year ago most folks had power back on in 3-7 days but there were some that went twice that long. Very few went more than a month.

One of the primary bottlenecks was the lack of electrical contractors to re-install the power heads on the side of homes. In many cases when the power lines were pulled down the power head on the house was damaged or ripped off entirely. The utility company is typically only responsible for getting the power to the pole nearest your house & they won't connect to an electrical system that is damaged.

At least in that storm, if you lost power, a three day outage was pretty much a best case.
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#165763 - 01/30/09 08:57 PM Re: Midwest ice storms [Re: 7point82]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
I wonder how many people will kill themselves by running generators inside their houses this time.
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#165765 - 01/30/09 09:10 PM Re: Midwest ice storms [Re: scafool]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2941
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: scafool
If they clean out the Kerosene remember that *odorless mineral spirits paint thinner* is just a bit better grade of Kerosene.


With all respect, I would suggest a bit of caution before recommending this as a substitute "across the board.'

Glancing through the MSDSs of various manufacturers from Canada and the USA, there seem to be substantial variations in composition, flash point, and so on. These may possibly be regional variations reflecting temperature, humidity, regulatory rules, etc.

In lamps, I imagine one would just adjust the wick accordingly. In kerosene heaters? I honestly don't know. Combustion byproducts? Another good question to consider.

I don't have all the answers. This is just a "heads up."


Edited by dougwalkabout (01/30/09 09:12 PM)

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#165774 - 01/30/09 10:13 PM Re: Midwest ice storms [Re: dougwalkabout]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
Originally Posted By: scafool
If they clean out the Kerosene remember that *odorless mineral spirits paint thinner* is just a bit better grade of Kerosene.


With all respect, I would suggest a bit of caution before recommending this as a substitute "across the board.'

Glancing through the MSDSs of various manufacturers from Canada and the USA, there seem to be substantial variations in composition, flash point, and so on. These may possibly be regional variations reflecting temperature, humidity, regulatory rules, etc.

In lamps, I imagine one would just adjust the wick accordingly. In kerosene heaters? I honestly don't know. Combustion byproducts? Another good question to consider.

I don't have all the answers. This is just a "heads up."

I don't have all the answers either, but reading this
http://www.milesstair.com/kero_fuel_primer.html
might help a bit.

reading this will add to confusion
http://www.dep.state.fl.us/waste/quick_topics/publications/pss/pcp/PetroleumProductDescriptions.pdf

This statement from a refiner tells you a bit about the range mineral spirits occupy as fuel
http://www.agerefining.com/new/pr3.shtml
which is a narrower section of the range that is Kerosene.

Kerosene sold as fuel has a pretty wide range of properties depending on the manufacturer too.
It is wider than what is sold as paint thinner (mineral spirits).
Paint thinner is viewed as a more demanding use that requires higher refining than kerosene fuel generally does.

In a lot of Europe you can't buy "mineral spirits" It is all just "petrol" or their other local name for kerosene


Edited by scafool (01/30/09 10:57 PM)
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#165820 - 01/31/09 05:00 AM Re: Midwest ice storms [Re: scafool]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2941
Loc: Alberta, Canada
You're right, kerosene is something of a witches' brew in itself. It's certainly useful to know that paint thinner can pinch-hit, with the usual reasonable precautions.

My main question, really, is the safety of paint thinner in kerosene heaters, which are often used indoors in an emergency and with partial venting at best. Can they handle the "high-test" stuff? Would they run too hot? Perhaps an experienced user has some direct experience to share.

I know that my old MSR XGK stove will burn everything from diesel fuel to stoddard solvent. I assume paint thinner is closer to the solvent. But that's an open-air activity, and with oddball fuels I would always use a well-covered pot. Diesel fumes won't improve the mac and cheese.

Meanwhile, I'm going to try paint thinner in my Dietz Air Pilot lantern, bought cheap after the Y2K bust. Might as well; I'd rather roller-skate through Hades than paint an interior wall.

P.S., don't Brits call kerosene "paraffin" and gasoline "petrol?"


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#165826 - 01/31/09 05:58 AM Re: Midwest ice storms [Re: dougwalkabout]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Hi again Doug.

I was getting way to wordy again,
The Age Refiners link gave this answer

Quote:
Solvents are midrange boiling materials (between jet fuel and diesel), and they are suitable in each application. In fact, they derive properties from each fuel: the jet cut lends cleaning capabilities and water white clarity, and diesel provides solvency and a higher flash point, which in turn creates a safer workplace.


I won't burn diesel in a lamp because it soots the lamp up.
I won't burn vegetable oil in a lamp either because it crusts the wick up.
And anything that evaporates and flashes faster then Jet A is too volatile.

I do know that when I buy odorless lamp oil at a premium price it is the exact same thing as odorless paint thinner and burns exactly the same.

I have had problems with pressure stoves burning automotive type fuels because of the additives clogging up the jets.

I am glad you questioned my comment because I am looking at it and checking out if what I have been doing for years is right.
The result is I am finding out a lot of grey areas in how they name oil products.

(I wonder if Blast would be able to clear it up a bit.)


Edited by scafool (01/31/09 09:51 PM)
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