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#165589 - 01/29/09 01:37 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: clearwater]
Mike_H Offline

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: clearwater

Ski training once, just outside the search truck, we piled all our
packs in the ski rescue sled (to simulate a body) to see how steep a hill we could ski it down.

Where we couldn't get our snow pits
to show signs of layer weakness or cornices to fail with one person jumping up and down, with the load of 8 bodies holding
onto the sled, the snow collapsed and the sled rode 50' down
the little hill with a small avalanche.

In our packs, in the buried sled,
were our shovels and probes.

Now there is a lesson learned the hard way...
"I reject your reality and substitute my own..." - Adam Savage / Mythbusters

#165662 - 01/29/09 10:53 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: Still_Alive]

I used to settle for the 2 garbage bag and duct tape solution to shelter/warmth, but in my dotage I prefer a bit more insulation now, so based on everyone's recommendations, I bought and have used the AMK heatsheets and bivy's, and they are just enough to make it AOK.

Oh, and I lug a small tarp/paracord just in case of rain, about a pound's worth of weight.

#165682 - 01/30/09 01:52 AM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: ]
2005RedTJ Offline

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 475
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
I'm currently carrying an AMK Thermo-Lite II bivvy, 3 space blankets, 2 contractor bags, and an 8'x10' tarp with cord and stakes. I don't want to do without some shelter.

#165695 - 01/30/09 03:50 AM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: 2005RedTJ]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
A long time back, I almost bought a prime winter buffalo robe. The wieght @ 30 lbs and cost left me cold. Next I looked at a Hudson's Bay point blanket. Both wieght and cost were more reasonable, but then I thought of packing that pretty blanket and it went on my bed.
So I waited one field trip to long, freezing in a rectangle car bag in Anza Borrega. I went the following weekend, and arrival of my G.I. bill check to visit my local ski rental and outdoor shop. Down bags in the popular red and deep blue hung like so many crysalis.
I told my friend and salesman I 'would never be cold again' with all the determination of Scarlet O'Hara. He produced two bags hidden away.They were this split pea green colour and were rated 4 season, -20 degrees. I hesitated, and he dropped the price $20 BELOW the 3 season bags. I can't see popular colours with my eyes closed anyway. I bought it.A Silva Ranger compass, balaclava, mittens and 3 pair of socks went home with me that day.
Next field trip to the desert brought a rare snowfall. People were jumping into cars to sleep sitting in their bags. I pulled my tarp over me, noted in the dark the direction of snowfall by my luminescent compass, sort of wormed my face to leeward and fell asleep.
That bag lasted beyond my best hoped for expectation. No annual camping trips, but near weekly field excavations and full, 3 month summer use.
And even when it started to fall apart, a gifting of goosedown found it's way into countless springtime bird and small animal nests. I like to think the vigorous crop of babies was from my old bag.
It was replaced with a 4 lb, 0 degree rated Wiggy bag. Lamilite is a remarkable material, and I am satisfied. I also pack it on day hikes, secured to my german issue day rucksack that holds my sil tarp, paracord and George Carlin 'stuff.'
I get looks and comments all the time. Well not the one day my group came upon an injured hiker who we got into my bag until the Park Rangers arrived well after dusk.
The buffalo robe or point blanket would sure look neat though, sitting down among the ultralight hiking crowd, pulling a bottle of red wine, fruitcake and beef jerky.
Oh, Lamilite will regain it's full loft very quickly as opposed to even goosedown. The compression packing is VERY expensive.Unless you're punching out of a F 16, just hang it on your daypack, maybe sew a Bigfoot research association patch on it.Bigfoots are rumoured to love fruitcake.

Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (01/30/09 03:57 AM)

#165701 - 01/30/09 05:01 AM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: quick_joey_small]
Steve Offline

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 84
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: quickjoeysmall
I see Wiggy bags are actually available shrink wrapped. Do they really work after that?

That's what they claim, but I don't have personal experience. Based on Chris' comments I want one, badly!

"After I had solaced my mind with the comfortable part of my condition, I
began to look round me, to see what kind of place I was in, and what was
next to be done"

#165707 - 01/30/09 12:26 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: Still_Alive]
DavidEnoch Offline

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Texas
"Four pounds of shelter and warmth"

The night that I was looking at various kits and got to thinking about this was a cold rainy night. It was about 33 degrees and everything was wet. When I looked at the kits I was definitely thinking about the weather that we were experiencing outside.

I also hike in Colorado every summer on vacation and there it can go from very hot to snowing in a matter of an hour or two up high in the mountains.

I carry a couple of trash bags and a Heat Sheet, but have been adding a poncho and poncho liner or light sleeping bag to my daypack for almost every hike. If I break a leg or are otherwise injured, I may not be able to scout out a good natural shelter. I once broke my foot just by slipping off some cross ties at my house and landing in a very odd angle on my foot. It can and does happen. In the summer in Texas where I live, I could get by without much in the way of shelter but I feel it is worth the extra weight.

I don't mean to put down anyone's kit. We each have to carry what we are comfortable with. For me, I will opt to carry a little more bulk and weight.

David Enoch

#165714 - 01/30/09 03:03 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: DavidEnoch]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
I've said this before. The bottom line is at day's end we all crawl into our own sleeping system with the chosen knife as companion.
What caught my attention to Wiggys was not Jerry's combative nature ( honed by a lot of people who would not, or could not refute his knowledge of insulation. It was the late Chris Janowsly of Alaska. Chris was a dealer, after buying a bag and testing it by TOTAL emersion in a river in winter and then crawling into it.
Wiggys are being sold at 20% discount. The cost went up because of oil prices and then our economy began to go cold.

Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (01/30/09 03:08 PM)

#165720 - 01/30/09 03:37 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: DavidEnoch]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: DavidEnoch
It was about 33 degrees and everything was wet.

Decades ago I had a very experienced Sierra climbing & trekking guide teach me that the worst weather to be caught in was "35 degrees and raining". He would rather be in a blizzard at subzero temps than be caught out in the wet, just above freezing.

I've been carrying a minimalist sil-nylon tarp from O-Ware for the last few years, even on dayhikes (and I still carry the plastic bags & AMK bivy). I had it made in blaze orange to serve as a signaling tool as well and it weighs under 1 pound. Combined with my trekking poles and some cordage it is very versatile, either alone or integrated into a bushcraft-style shelter.

#165726 - 01/30/09 04:39 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
I carry a heatsheet too, but keep the bivy in my jeep. I considered carrying the bivy, but figured that, if needed, I could rig a shelter, using the heatsheet itself as a liner, and, with a fire going, likely stay warmer with the reflected heat, than with it wrapped around me.
Now, that being said, I am obviously planning on building a fire; should that not happen, I still have my military poncho for shelter, and can use the heatsheet for warmth. I think though that the bigger issue would be dressing correctly for the weather. Although I enjoy wool, I almost always hike in synthetics. Simply because they dry quicker. I keep my natural materials for my campground activities.
Again, most, if not all of us here, have spent more than a few nights, or weeks, out in the boonies, testing & trying new gear. with the wealth of knowledge all of us bring, it really comes down to what you're comfy carrying. Some prefer to do more with less, some prefer ease of use. These dont always mutually exclude each other; but, with a wealth of knowhow, I am sure some of you could disappear for a week with nothing more than a wool blanket, good knife, and a sharp axe. Me, I like to make some things easy; firestarting, for example. I CAN do it with a bowdrill; havent in probably 15 years, but know I have. Hence, I have firemaking material everywhere in my kits & on my body.
Shelter, for me, is the same; I can build something, or find something, but the convenience of my poncho works well in most situations. Besides, I have spent many, many nights under a poncho; it almost feels nostalgic smile Of course, that feeling would quickly fade on about day 3 of a real survival situation for me...but, I havent been there yet, and sorta hope not to go there!
my adventures

#165743 - 01/30/09 06:33 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: oldsoldier]
scafool Offline

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Again we come to the point Canoedogs made in the 4th comment back.
At which point does it quit being an emergency kit and become a camping kit?
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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