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#165091 - 01/26/09 05:57 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: clearwater]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1852
Loc: MINNESOTA

as long as we are on the subject of bags--i'm sure we have all looked thru Ebay for survival gear and seen the orange vacuum packed sleeping bag--$100+ if i recall--and tried that at home with a down or poly bag and really have it worked to the point where you put it into a survival kit and left it there--no taking it out for camping ,that sort of thing?

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#165093 - 01/26/09 05:59 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: CANOEDOGS]
DavidEnoch Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS

good thoughts,but this is where we get into what is a survival kit and what is the stuff we carry around when we go hiking,canoeing,rockhounding?..the "kit" to me is something small enought to be carryed un-noticed untill the moment you need to survive--matches-foil bag-ration bar-..the other stuff is the Lite-Hiker knapsack with enought gear to camp out if need be..my survival kit is the stuff i carry in the pockets of my PFD. compact food,a pot.Bic,and a Heatsheet bag are top items.-- i know it's hair splitting but i think of it this way.
the news report---"he "survived for a week before he was found"--V.S. "we found him camped out,lost, back in the hills"


I guess my point is to not go out with just a small kit. Take enough gear to survive what you fear to be the worst weather you could encounter. While I agree that even a small Altoids kit is much better than nothing, I don't think it will give you much margin for bad weather. It can be done with less weight than 4 pounds but what I am saying is that adding what is needed to keep you safe is worth the weight and space and worth changing your carry method.

David Enoch

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#165095 - 01/26/09 06:01 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: DavidEnoch]
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2475
I always pack a jacket; very useful shelter. Warm and dry is a priority.





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#165099 - 01/26/09 06:31 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: DavidEnoch]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Originally Posted By: DavidEnoch

I guess my point is to not go out with just a small kit. Take enough gear to survive what you fear to be the worst weather you could encounter. While I agree that even a small Altoids kit is much better than nothing, I don't think it will give you much margin for bad weather. It can be done with less weight than 4 pounds but what I am saying is that adding what is needed to keep you safe is worth the weight and space and worth changing your carry method.

David Enoch

Yes, well maybe not the absolute worst you can imagine, but at least enough for what it is sane and prudent to expect.
For example a person should have enough clothing with them that they can rest comfortably instead of needing to keep moving just to stay warm.
People have died of exposure by getting caught out in the rain when they had nothing but a tee shirt and shorts on. The weather can change a lot in the course of a day.

I tend to think of how many hours away I will be away when considering what to take with me.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#165100 - 01/26/09 06:44 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: scafool]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
If you looked at my kit you will see that I pack an AMK thermal blanket and a Tacoma Mountain Rescue shelter. I'm pondering on adding an AMK bivvy too.

I have the heatsheet and shelter vacuum packed so they easily slip into my pockets. My kit is actually made to disperse into different components that way.

When out on a dayhike, I'm not planning on carrying a tent, but I do have the emergency shelter options with me. The shelter, blanket, and fire making should make for a comfortable night. I will have more than adequate clothing with me to adjust to a swing of temps from day to night.

I'd like to think that most people on this forum carry emergency shelter in their packs as well, but don't necessarily call it their survival kit.
_________________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own..." - Adam Savage / Mythbusters

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#165106 - 01/26/09 07:12 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: TeacherRO]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2196
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Part of the reason I don't carry such items is that I'm comfortable in my environment and my abilities. In my daypack, I have an AMK bivy (the Gen 1 version), a 2-person heat sheet, and some plastic trash bags. I figure it's enough for a decently comfortable night, when worn over my clothes. I usually have extra clothes (usually a fleece vest at the minimum), so I have insulation there.

If I'm going for a dedicated camping trip, then yeah, I have a tent and sleeping bag.

My exception to this is my bag I'm setting up for Alaska. It'll have my 1-man tent and my sleeping bag, because I just anticipate harsher conditions up there. While a bivy and trash bags may suffice, I'd rather have the security of a bag and tent.

As for why we keep our kits light and small, it's 2 reasons: easier to bring, and easier to carry. You mentioned you keep your kit under 10lbs. I don't know how you keep it so light - mine runs about 15# all told. But IMO, you seem guilty of the "keep it light and small" mentality too. My question is, why do YOU keep it light and small, and what do you leave out to keep it that light?

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#165107 - 01/26/09 07:14 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: Mike_H]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2132
Loc: NE Wisconsin
The problem with the "in my pack" thing is that people ...

(1) ... have things happen that are well beyond the trip
exectations. Such as being stranded on a deserted tropical island when you went on a simple 3-hour tour, so they simply can't "pack correctly" ... I'm simply NOT going to carry a sleeping bag or tent while hiking 3-5 miles on a recreational area trail. I will carry plastic bags, or other survival shelters.


(2) ... fall prey to gear-seperation. Examples: Canoe overturns, flash flood takes tent w/ gear in it, tent catches on fire, person gets lost on way from quick potty-break, plane crashes & burns, took a quick afternoon hike with gear back at camp and got lost, gear was supposed to have been ferried to the main camp but didn't show up, ...

Again, in my own view, if the kit isn't with you at ALL times when outdoors, then its not a survival kit - its backpacking/camping gear. People simply don't expect to have to survive - it comes without warning.

Just my view.

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#165109 - 01/26/09 07:16 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: TeacherRO]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
'...i think of it this way. the news report---"he "survived for a week before he was found"--V.S. "we found him camped out,lost, back in the hills" '

You must be a lot more sensitive than I am, because I simply don't give a sh** what some news article says. Not even a tiny bit. I am not responsible for what other people think.

I know there's a difference between the PSK you keep in your pocket all the time and what you have the rest of the time (and even that is probably stair-stepped).

Where will you be when you're away from home, and what is your mode of transportation? How far from help are you likely to be? How bad of a spot will you be in if you break (or even badly sprain) your ankle?

Okay, so you keep your Altoids tin in your pocket all waking hours. Fine. You're in town, it's all you need. SmSize > Bulk/Wt.

Day hiking, you simply never know what you will encounter. Here's where traveling ultra-light is really stupid. You can't control the weather, especially. You're either smart enough to allow for changes, or you're dumb enough to be a statistic -- it's your choice.

You keep a smallish backpack in your vehicle in case you need it to get home. It's small enough to carry, and what it contains is more important than the weight. Wt+Bulk=Need.

If you're traveling out in the boonies (commuting or general travel), you could be caught far from help. Now you may need more stuff than you can carry easily, but it's in your vehicle, so you may be able to shelter in the vehicle.
Bulk+Wt > Convenience.

Fit your carry to where you're going. Ultra-light carry has proven to be deadly for quite a few people. I'm sure they haven't found all the bodies yet.

Sue

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#165110 - 01/26/09 07:16 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: KenK]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: KenK
The problem with the "in my pack" thing is that people ...

(1) ... have things happen that are well beyond the trip
exectations. Such as being stranded on a deserted tropical island when you went on a simple 3-hour tour, so they simply can't "pack correctly" ... I'm simply NOT going to carry a sleeping bag or tent while hiking 3-5 miles on a recreational area trail. I will carry plastic bags, or other survival shelters.


(2) ... fall prey to gear-seperation. Examples: Canoe overturns, flash flood takes tent w/ gear in it, tent catches on fire, person gets lost on way from quick potty-break, plane crashes & burns, took a quick afternoon hike with gear back at camp and got lost, gear was supposed to have been ferried to the main camp but didn't show up, ...

Again, in my own view, if the kit isn't with you at ALL times when outdoors, then its not a survival kit - its backpacking/camping gear. People simply don't expect to have to survive - it comes without warning.

Just my view.


I couldn't agree more. As Doug says, if it isn't with you, it's not going to help you.

I have lots of stuff in my pack. I also have a lot of stuff on my person in case my pack goes bye-bye.

Can you guess how many times I told the scouts to take their pack with them when going out in to the woods this weekend?!?!
_________________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own..." - Adam Savage / Mythbusters

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#165132 - 01/26/09 09:46 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: KenK]
raptor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 288
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: KenK

Again, in my own view, if the kit isn't with you at ALL times when outdoors, then its not a survival kit - its backpacking/camping gear. People simply don't expect to have to survive - it comes without warning.

Just my view.


I respect your view and I agree that itīs very important to carry as much as you can in your pocket, etc. but I wouldnīt hesitate to call a certain gear a part of my survival kit if itīs carried in my backpack. If itīs there as an answer for situations when things go bad itīs sure part of my "survival kit". Whether itīs every second with me is in my opinion different thing - it doesnīt make it camping/backpacking gear when it is in fact designed and/or carried for possible survival situation.

My survival kit consists of two parts - first part are the most important survival items I carry in my pockets and the heavier and bigger part is in my backpack, ... . Just my perspective.

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