Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 3 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
#165145 - 01/26/09 11:27 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: DavidEnoch]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
In warmer weather, a couple pounds of tarp, a couple more of wool blanket, a few ounces of mesh or parasilk hammock, and a few more ounces of webbing and paracord is absolutely one of the best things I can have in the kit. A little heavier than four pounds, call it five. *shrugs*
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#165153 - 01/27/09 12:00 AM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: MDinana]
Sherpadog
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: MDinana
Part of the reason I don't carry such items is that I'm comfortable in my environment and my abilities. In my daypack, I have an AMK bivy (the Gen 1 version), a 2-person heat sheet, and some plastic trash bags. I figure it's enough for a decently comfortable night, when worn over my clothes. I usually have extra clothes (usually a fleece vest at the minimum), so I have insulation there.

If I'm going for a dedicated camping trip, then yeah, I have a tent and sleeping bag.

Originally Posted By: MDinana
Part of the reason I don't carry such items is that I'm comfortable in my environment and my abilities. In my daypack, I have an AMK bivy (the Gen 1 version), a 2-person heat sheet, and some plastic trash bags. I figure it's enough for a decently comfortable night, when worn over my clothes. I usually have extra clothes (usually a fleece vest at the minimum), so I have insulation there.

If I'm going for a dedicated camping trip, then yeah, I have a tent and sleeping bag.


As a person who does a lot of hiking, I totally agree on this. The environment and my abilities always helps decide which items I carry and which items stay in the car or at home.

On day hikes, the tent and sleeping bags stay home. However extra clothes and some shelter, whether it is the sil-tarp or just a 9x7 sheet of medium weight clear plastic are put into the pack. For the clothing, my standard is the clothes I am wearing plus enough in the pack to keep me warm for 10-15 C overnight drop in temperature without a night fire.

Also when out, I am always on the watch for any improvised shelters that can be used such as overturned tree stumps, rock overhangs etc. These are marked either on our map as we progress or in a small notebook and I always take a photo of the possible shelter and it's immediate area for future reference as seen in the below photos.

Although the photos have been cropped to save bandwidth, all 4 of these improvised shelters are very safe from any danger of surrounding collapse, flood etc. With 10- 15 minutes work to clear spruce up the area and with the addition of the above carried sil-tarp or plastic, our shelters are now large enough for 2 people and offers great protection from the elements. With a small fire burning close by, our odds of comfortably surviving almost any type of weather for multiple nights/days have improved immensely.

Rock and ground overhang. A bit of work to clear out the dirt and level it off a bit, 2 people could lay in there with ease as it is deeper then it looks


Hollowed out cedar stump Once most of the rocks are removed, 2 people could sit /lay in there with leg room to spare)


This cave can also fit 3-4 people and the view is terrific as it looks out into a canyon.


This overturned tree stump /root system is huge and has many great options to rig a comfortable shelter. The dirt is easy to move out and although it is difficult to see in the photo, just behind the slight overhang in front, there is plenty of room to sit completely upright.



Top
#165162 - 01/27/09 12:52 AM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: ]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1843
Loc: MINNESOTA

Sherp--great photos--good thinking..i read a good book about a hiker in northern minnesota who sheltered in nothing more than a space like that and survived for a week or so in freezing weather--no fire-left his gear in his tent trying to find where he took a wrong turn and got lost.those may not look like much but with the stuff we talk about carrying--foil bag-bic--so on..you could live in those--

Top
#165227 - 01/27/09 04:11 AM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: CANOEDOGS]
Sherpadog
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS

Sherp--great photos--good thinking..i read a good book about a hiker in northern minnesota who sheltered in nothing more than a space like that and survived for a week or so in freezing weather--no fire-left his gear in his tent trying to find where he took a wrong turn and got lost.those may not look like much but with the stuff we talk about carrying--foil bag-bic--so on..you could live in those--


Thanks, carrying around a couple of cameras, lenses and a small tripod has some rewards other then just memories of a hike for me. I find the extra weight is well worth the reference material I can look back on days or months later.

In all the years I have spent outdoors, there have only been 4 times where making an expedient overnight shelter on the trail was truly needed. Although none of these times were in a true live or death situation, knowing that by looking around, observing and imagining different shelters while walking as seen in the example photos I posted, can pay dividends if and when the time comes.

Top
#165243 - 01/27/09 09:03 AM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: ]
bigreddog Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 253
Shelter is the most overlooked thing. A lot of crises can be survived with the ability to get through a wet cold night in OK shape.

Much maligned though they may be, a space blanket can make a huge difference, and can genuinely be carried in a shirt pocket so it is always with you.

I keep a cheap disposable poncho and a space blanket in most of my coat pockets - I may not be going miles from civilisation, but if I break my leg walking the dog in the woods, I intend to be dry and warm until rescue turns up

Top
#165246 - 01/27/09 12:03 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: bigreddog]
Sherpadog
Unregistered


Although I carry a space blanket, it is only a very small part of the equation in staying warm on cold wet nights.

Space blankets are "maligned" for this very reason as people have carried them for years and wonder why these blankets offer very little warmth when needed. If you are wearing cold wet clothes, the little heat that your body is giving off is not enough to dry nor warm these clothes....this also does not factor in ambient temperature, wind and humidity. Wrapping yourself in a space blanket may help somewhat but it is no substitute for proper preparation of shelter.

To test this, go out in the backyard when it is cold and raining and ensue you have with wet clothes on. Wrap yourself in a space blanket and spend the night with it and nothing else for shelter. Sure you will probably survive (which is the ultimate goal) however I can guarantee that you will not be warm and will of spent a very miserable night.





Top
#165253 - 01/27/09 12:50 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: ]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Good photos Sherpadog.

There have been a few times that any one of those four spots would have looked good.
With a small fire in front of you and that uprooted stump as a reflector behind your back you likely would be nice and warm as well as out of the wind and weather.

With a sleeping bag and some insulation under me I might be tempted to sleep in late.
( I have seen bears den up for the winter in spots just like that blowdown.)



Edited by scafool (01/27/09 12:54 PM)
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

Top
#165267 - 01/27/09 03:02 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: scafool]
tomfaranda Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 301
Loc: Croton on Hudson, NY
Sherpadog, i believe most of us will take a pass on your suggested experiment with the space blanket.

We believe you!

Top
#165283 - 01/27/09 04:27 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: DavidEnoch]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

You can get a full shelter i.e. tent, sleeping bag and mat for just over 4lbs. It is expensive though.

PHDesigns Minim 400 Down Bag @ 670gms Good to -5C.

http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=25_58&products_id=118

Thermarest NeoAir Sleeping Mat (medium) @ 370gms

http://www.thermarest.com/product_detail.aspx?pID=134&cID=1

TerraNova LaserLight Competetion tent @ 940gms

http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Product_Type...iew=description

Total 1.98 Kg = 4.356lbs

Or you could just forget the LaserLight tent and add 200gms to the PHDesigns Minim down bag with a Goretex shell and add a silnylon tarp Intergral Designs Silshelter @ 470gms

http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=729

Total 1.71Kg = 3.76 lbs






Top
#165310 - 01/27/09 06:21 PM Re: Carrying 4 pounds of shelter and warmth [Re: KenK]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
SherpaDog's practice of logging good sheltering sites for emergency use is quite smart and I will be shamelessly emulating that from now on!

I agree with CanoeDogs: we're getting into a semantic issue about the line between "survival kit" and "stuff I'm carrying for the trip I'm on". Like others have said, there's simply no way I'm going to tote 4 lbs of sleeping bag and tarps on a 3 mile dayhike. I do carry these shelter-specific items on the hike (among other essentials, of course):

- AMK HeatSheets bivvy bag
- two of these plastic bags
- a torso-sized piece of 1/2" closed cell foam
- gaffer's tape
- some paracord
- a few cable ties
- the knowledge and prior field experience of putting these components together to rig an emergency shelter, along with bushcraft skills

This thread brings to mind the 1st/2nd/3rd line gear philosophy. Sleeping bags & tents are definitely 3rd line gear, while what most would call survival kits/supplies are 1st line.

Originally Posted By: KenK
The one part I don't carry that I probably should is some kind of signal mirror. Unfortunately they just aren't tough enough or small enough to survive the pocket environment.


I have a set of these little mirrors on order. I'll test them and report back here on the forum. My idea is to cover the reflective side with a piece of a PDA screen protector to prevent scratches while stowed.

Top
Page 3 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
February
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
Who's Online
2 registered (Jeanette_Isabelle, haertig), 244 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
marco234, GarethDuncan, readyforthefall, Acropolis50, SimonBlack88
5302 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Revising and updating your EDC
by Jeanette_Isabelle
Today at 01:55 PM
Coronavirus outbreak in China -- now spreading
by Janysboy
Yesterday at 09:17 PM
Japan's Tsunami Caught On Camera
by Jeanette_Isabelle
Yesterday at 07:21 PM
Electrically conductive glue
by Eugene
02/12/20 11:23 PM
Heat Rescue Disaster Recovery
by Jeanette_Isabelle
02/12/20 05:51 PM
Latest knife purchase...
by Herman30
02/12/20 10:54 AM
Locusts in Africa
by clearwater
02/10/20 06:05 PM
Don't Get 'Juice Jacked'
by Herman30
02/09/20 08:04 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.