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#16439 - 06/03/03 09:56 PM Re: Where can I buy a CPR instruction card?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good point. I have enough trouble with the jaw thrust in a training environment, much less the real world, and I probably am better trained than many non-professionals.

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#16440 - 06/04/03 03:37 AM Re: Where can I buy a CPR instruction card?
survivalperson Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 86
You guys have made a believer out of me. The best move I can make right now is take an EMT class. I would say my wilderness first -aid training is suitable for the time-being, but further training is definately the next step.

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#16441 - 06/04/03 03:54 PM Re: Where can I buy a CPR instruction card?
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Sorry this is a long posting. As a paramedic, I have perform CPR more times than I can remember, so I do have some experience with both successes and failures. It is a correct statement to say if the cause of cardiac arrest is cardiac in nature, CPR without early defibrillation will generally be unsuccessful, but to say it is never successful is not completely accurate. I have had one case where CPR alone, perform correctly and within the first minute was successful. In this case it was my mother. My mom has a history of Congestive Heart Failure (CHF), having a CHF crisis in the spring of 98' requiring her to stop smoking after 50+ years and to be under the care of a Cardiologist. One Sunday, the following winter (she generally comes over our house every Sunday for dinner), we had just sat down to eat, when she had what first appeared to be a seizure and then fell face forward into her dinner plate. I jump up, pulled her to the floor, while my middle daughter took the youngest to our bedroom, my oldest daughter started to push furniture out the way and my wife dialed 911. My mother was pulseless and apnic (not breathing), I initiated CPR immediately. Within minutes, spontaneous respirations and circulation returned. When the ambulance and medic unit arrived, she was beginning to talk, granted it was incomprehensible, but verbal communication never the less. The EKG showed no ectopy (adverse cardiac rhythm), so we administered no cardiac drugs. In the Emergency Department (ED), I discussed her condition with the ED Physician, who did not believe she arrested, as there was no evidence of an abnormal EKG and her cardiac enzymes were within normal ranges. They called in an on-call Cardiologist and Neurologist, both of whom felt she must have just fainted (not believing as a paramedic I know when someone is pulseless and apnic), believing CPR alone was not enough to resuscitated a person in cardiac arrest. They did hold her over night to perform additional tests, I talked to her regular Cardiologist in the morning and based upon the lack of additional evidence of any cardiac problems, they were going to release her in the afternoon. Around lunchtime I received a call from the hospital to come over immediately, as my mom had gone into cardiac arrest (pulseless Ventricular Tachycardia), had successfully defibrillated her and was in the process of sending to the Washington Hospital Center, for a cardiac catheterization. Fortunately her regular Cardiologist was at the hospital at the time and led the Code Team. When I arrived, he updated me on her condition and apologized for his colleges' disbelief that she had indeed arrested the night before and that rapid CPR alone was in fact successful. This particular physician is one of the finest gentlemen I know and has always treated me with professional courtesy, unlike some of his colleges. We discussed one on one, medically what must have occurred. In the old days, as part of CPR instruction, they used to teach giving a pre-cordial thump, which was thought to provide a mechanical form of defibrillation. It is no longer taught; as there is little solid evidence it is beneficial and delays the start of CPR. We theorized the initial chest compressions served as enough of a mechanical stimulus as to cause the heart to defibrillate. The rapid start of CPR prevented further ectopy and development of a cardiac enzyme pattern typical of cardiac arrest. My mom went on to have a 2X bypass, she is still alive and doing well for an 86 year old women. So CPR, without early defibrillation can on occasion, save lives, even if the cause of cardiac arrest is cardiac in origin. Pete

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#16442 - 06/04/03 04:22 PM Re: Where can I buy a CPR instruction card?
Anonymous
Unregistered


An interesting story pete. Glad to hear you mum is still doing well.

I should probably have said CPR alone very rarely revives a person from cardiac arrest, rather than never. I have heard of a couple of other cases where early CPR has reversed a suspected cardiac arrest.

You story does illustrate one of my other points, that most CPR attempts by non-professionals (or off duty) will be on people you know.

Chris

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#16443 - 06/05/03 01:46 AM Re: Where can I buy a CPR instruction card?
survivalperson Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 86
How effective is Rescue Breathing?

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#16444 - 06/05/03 12:53 PM Re: Where can I buy a CPR instruction card?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Depends on the underlying problems that need to be addressed. Rescue breathing is only breathing. If there is pulse then you might be helping, without pulse you oxygenate blood that stays in the lungs - so what. The brain needs oxygen and without pulse the oxygenated blood doesn't get there.

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#16445 - 06/05/03 02:01 PM Re: Where can I buy a CPR instruction card?
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Depending on the cause of respiratory arrest, it is very effective. I think I mentioned this once before, but in infants and children, the number 1 cause of cardiac arrest is respiratory arrest. That why with infants and children, it is recommended to perform rescue breathing or CPR (which ever is indicated) for 1 minute prior to activating 911(this is if you are alone, never delay 911 if there are others around to start life saving procedures). This prevents any delay in the administration of those procedures shown to be most effective in infants and children. As noted in other posts, cardiac arrest in adults most often is attributed to some type of cardiac problem. Where early defibrillation and cardiac drugs are more likely to succeed than CPR alone. This why with adults (again only if you are alone) activation of 911 is recommended prior to the start of CPR. Pete

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#16446 - 06/05/03 02:27 PM Re: Where can I buy a CPR instruction card?
Polak187 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 1403
Loc: Brooklyn, New York
If there is a strong/decent pulse rescue breathing is very succesful. I had a patient that I ventilated for 45 min (stuck in traffic) expecting her to go into cardiac arrest any minute. I had defib on her and medic on stand by. I went to visit her at the end of my shift (6 hours later) and she was wide awake and smiling.

The only problem with rescue breathing is that if head is positioned the wrong way you will be inflating stomach instead of lungs. When gastric inflation reaches max patient will throw up on you and that's a posible choking hazard. To avoid that just watch for even chest rise and if you you see stomach inflating reposition the head.

Matt
_________________________
Matt
http://brunerdog.tripod.com/survival/index.html

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#16447 - 06/06/03 02:01 PM Re: Where can I buy a CPR instruction card?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Strikes me that a CPR instruction card is a waste of time. CPR INSTRUCTION is worthwhile.

Jeff

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