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#163414 - 01/16/09 01:55 PM Editorial About Charging For Rescue
Jesselp Offline
What's Next?
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 263
Loc: New York
I thought folks might find this interesting.

Editorial - The Costs of Negligence

I know it's a topic that has been debated here before, and that the NY Times is not exactly based in a big "wilderness area" so may be a little removed from the debate, but interesting nonetheless.

Anyone know what the debate was like in New Hampshire before this new rule was implemented? How many people have actually been charged, and what the result has been?
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#163442 - 01/16/09 05:22 PM Re: Editorial About Charging For Rescue [Re: Jesselp]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
I suppose the next step will be demanding a rescue deposit before anybody is allowed to leave their house.
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May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#163485 - 01/16/09 09:57 PM Re: Editorial About Charging For Rescue [Re: scafool]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
It doesn't say that every person who gets lost is going to be charged.

"Since 1999, it has billed them for the costs of rescue if their behavior was reckless. But in July, the standard was changed. If you find yourself in trouble thanks to your own negligence, a lower threshold of responsibility, then you also may end up paying the cost for being rescued."

I don't have any problem with that.

America has spawned an excellent crop of fools and idiots. People tend to think they can do anything, anywhere, and someone else is always going to bail them out and then thank them for the opportunity to do so.

Our government has done its very best to create a cradle-to-grave safety net to cover virtually every single stupid thing a person can do. For instance, every person injured while committing a criminal act can sue his victim. Why?

Maybe it's time to let people deal with their own stupidities.

Sue

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#163486 - 01/16/09 10:01 PM Re: Editorial About Charging For Rescue [Re: scafool]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
NH charges for gross negligence. I have been on a few searches out there over the years. Pretty much, if you go out there UNprepared, and put yourself in a predicament WELL over your head (not an accident, or getting caught in a REAL bad storm), they WILL charge you. Most places where people get stuck out there are hard to get to; extraction can take literally hours (I have participated in one that took over 6, and about 5 relay teams, to extract someone). This takes a LOT of manpower. And, some S & R folks like me, travel 3 hours to get these people. I am a volunteer; I get NO compensation for this. Thats wear & tear on my vehicle, time away from work, etc. You also have NH fish & game, local pd/fd, state pd, and, in some cases, the national guard. If your idea of a weekend backpacking trip in October to the Whites consists of jeans, a jean jacket, t shirt, and a rucksack full of beer, rest assured; you get rescued, it WILL cost you LOTS of money.
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#163488 - 01/16/09 10:09 PM Re: Editorial About Charging For Rescue [Re: Susan]
2005RedTJ Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 475
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
Originally Posted By: Susan
Maybe it's time to let people deal with their own stupidities.


Amen. We live in a society nowadays where the stupid people are virtually bubble-wrapped to keep from hurting themselves. Warning labels that "Coffee Is Hot" are proof that the average person now is dumber than at any time in history.

Of course, our legal system allows lawsuits based on such things, but it wouldn't have been allowed in a day and age where you couldn't make the judge and jury believe that you honestly are too stupid to know that it's hot.

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#163496 - 01/16/09 10:32 PM Re: Editorial About Charging For Rescue [Re: Susan]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...America has spawned an excellent crop of fools and idiots. People tend to think they can do anything, anywhere, and someone else is always going to bail them out and then thank them for the opportunity to do so.
Our government has done its very best to create a cradle-to-grave safety net to cover virtually every single stupid thing a person can do. For instance, every person injured while committing a criminal act can sue his victim. Why?
Maybe it's time to let people deal with their own stupidities..."



You must be talking about CA, right?

If we could get people to be responsible for their own actions, this country (or at least a few states) could probably dig itself out of dept in no time at all...

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#163510 - 01/17/09 12:03 AM Re: Editorial About Charging For Rescue [Re: Susan]
bsmith Offline
day hiker
Addict

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 584
Loc: ventura county, ca
Originally Posted By: Susan
if their behavior was reckless - thanks to your own negligence - may end up paying the cost for being rescued."


i day hike prepared. i'm sure i'm not alone in constantly being astounded by the total lack of preparation i see while out hiking.

my 2 cents worth = bill 'em for their negligence / recklessness / stupidity.

same goes for firebugs.
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#163521 - 01/17/09 01:24 AM Re: Editorial About Charging For Rescue [Re: bsmith]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
It always starts like this every time you lose something or get shafted by another insurance industry grab at your wallet.

They just re-wrote the law to make it easier to charge anybody who needs assistance.
Who defines what is negligent?
If you get your car stuck on a country road you can be billed for being negligent under this law. You should have known better than to wander off the pavement.

You are a dayhiker and get into trouble?
Well obviously you were not well enough prepared.
If you were well enough prepared you would not have needed any help, therefore you are negligent.

So just remember after they start charging you for rescue insurance whenever you buy a boat, an ATV, a hunting license or a park use permit that you were cheering for beating up the other guy.

As a society there are certain costs we bear, including the cost of having idiots amongst us.




Edited by scafool (01/17/09 08:21 AM)
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#163524 - 01/17/09 02:14 AM Re: Editorial About Charging For Rescue [Re: scafool]
2005RedTJ Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 475
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
We had a somewhat related discussion the other day on an offroading board I'm on. I extract people when they get stuck, no matter whether they are deep in the woods or just off the side of the road. My only rule is that THEY hook up to whatever point on their vehicle they want to. I'll check it to make sure it looks structurally sound before I pull them out. But, if their vehicle gets damaged during the process, it's not my problem. THEY got stuck, THEY asked me to pull them out, and THEY made the connection to their own vehicle.

I've never charged anyone for pulling them out, I've never charged anyone for helping them repair their vehicle, I've never even charged for giving people parts out of my supply of spare parts. I figure what comes around goes around and one day I might need their help. Unlikely given the amount of tools, parts, and general preparedness on my part, but still possible.

That said, if someone is just repeatedly being an idiot, I might not help them. Only one time comes to mind. We were out at the offroad park and a few kids in a near-stock Jeep Cherokee tried a trail that my Jeep wouldn't stand a chance of making it up. (Think 4' tall straight vertical ledges for about 100' in a row) They destroyed their tierod and were trying to winch it out.

Several much older, very knowledgeable, experienced people tried helping and offering advice, but they wouldn't listen to anyone. They hooked to a 6" tree about 10' off the ground, nearly pulled the tree down on everyone, and wouldn't even listen to our advice about fixing it when they finally got it out. Finally, we just drove off and left them with it. Winch cable under high tension + stupid kids = high likelihood of death or serious injury.


Edited by 2005RedTJ (01/17/09 02:15 AM)

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#163556 - 01/17/09 01:49 PM Re: Editorial About Charging For Rescue [Re: Jesselp]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1084
Loc: Channeled Scablands
I'll say it again, when people are fearful they will be charged
for a search, it makes it harder for the searchers. The victim
will try extra hard to find their way out and in the process increase
the search area. Some even hide from searchers, hoping if they find
their way, they will plead they were not in need of assistance.

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