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#16233 - 06/03/03 05:54 AM Re: New Survival Philosophy

No, it was not listed. The only Sawyer product listed was Sawyer Controlled Release, a lotion with 20% deet. Just because something isn't listed doesn't mean that it's not any good, however.

With two exceptions, there was a direct relationship between the effectiveness of a repellent and the amount of deet it contained. The more deet, the more effective. The product with 100% deet was effective against mosquitoes for 13 hours, the most of any product listed. It was effective against ticks for 7 hours, just slightly less than the top rated product.

I would not be surprised if the Sawyer product with 100% deet was roughly as effective as the 100% product list in CU.

#16234 - 06/03/03 03:52 PM This may be a dumb statement
garrett Offline

Registered: 03/07/03
Posts: 249
Loc: North Carolina

I am a little confused. You have many of the new pieces of equipment (knives, night vision) but you want to go more primative. Forgive me for being a little upitty, but WHY?? Most fo the articles I have read on this site and others say carry enough to get you through the first 48 to 72 hours. During that time, you can usually move to safety of some sort (a small town, farm house etc). Being from OK, where there are some large tracts of land, I can see taking up to two days to get out, but the only concern I would have would be water.

I am digressing, why dont you carry a knife everyday? Same goes with a lighter. As far as I could read, you never answered those questions clearly. I know you are in HS and they wont let you carry that stuff to school, but IMHO, there isnt a need for them there. I know there are a million scenarios that could happen in a school, but I would think they are few and far between. So back to the point, why not go out prepared, if you already have the gear? A lighter isnt a difficult thing to get and I am sure your parents have some matches. Those should be easy to get, unless you are not allowed to have them, and if you go camping without them, well then good luck. I have tried almost all of the fire starting methods I could find and I would much rather use a lighter or some matches.

I hate to sound mean or rude, and if I have I am truly sorry, I would just hate for your first expirience to be so bad that you lose your interest or end up hurt or worse. I have seen people incapacitated within 20 minutes of their home on foot. It sucks.

Anyway, good luck and get yourself a good knife or multitool, and a lighter too. They are cheap and really small ones are great for emergency flame if need be.

On occasion of every accident that befalls you, remember to turn to yourself and inquire what power you have for turning it to use. - Epictetus

#16235 - 06/04/03 04:00 AM Re: New Survival Philosophy
Comanche7 Offline

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 436
Loc: Florida
Thanks for checking. <img src="images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My research across several forums and books indicated that the 100% is the stuff to buy for use when you really need it. Included in several of the sources that I perused was the cautionary statement that when you're using it, to watch out for getting it onto sensitive skin areas/eyes <img src="images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> , avoid ingesting it and to remove it with soap and water when it is no longer needed.

My own inclination is to not use it unnecessarily (like when you may have other options), but when the time comes it will be very welcome.

Another thought that comes to mind, it that in the case of folks with sensitive skin (youngsters etc.), it could probably be "cut" to a lower percentage via mixing with some of the common sunblock/sunscreen lotions. Depending upon how many folks are "sharing" your kit at the time and how long it looks like you'll be "out there", cutting it with sunscreen would extend your resources.

As far as the useful repellent time for ticks and mosquitos, my experience is that almost all of the time there are more mosquitos than ticks in a given area and that the flying vermin are more annoying. Having had to do "tick checks" upon returning home, I am also appreciative that the DEET also works on them as well. They are both considered carriers of disease. <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Living as close to the Everglades as I do, and having (regretably <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ) been out there without repellent in the past, I know for a fact, that when I need it, I'll need it bigtime. Until then, it quietly sits in the kit ready for use. <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

#16236 - 06/04/03 10:53 AM Re: This may be a dumb statement

First, sorry I have been absent. Alot of big tests coming up and the review sessions take up ALL of my free time. To answer your question as to why I want to go more primitive, it's mostly a reason of diversity. If I can make a fire with just the stuff I can gather from the land, I feel much closer to it and better able to survive. I have, however, organized a survival pack with a lighter 2 different sized knives and various other things I find would help me out. They arn't the best knives ever built, but I can easily make do. Anyway, I can see myself having to flee from humanic disastors, and not having time to get any lighters or stuff. I'm trying to be efficent, but I think I went too far so now I at least have them already to go.

Your not the first one to point out the chink in my armor. Thanx. I have spent my fair share of time outdoors freezeing up under a tree or bank. I have a long list of things I'm going to purchase as soon as I get a liscence, and you can bet fire starting equipment and knives are on it. I agree with you that a lighter is the easiest way to start a fire. But what happens when it runs out, or you fall and break it. Maybe I'm just thinking Hatchet too much. Maybe I have watched too much Tremors I dunno. I don't mean to evade the question. Actually, for shear ease of fire starting, an acetylene torch would be the best <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

#16237 - 06/04/03 10:59 AM Re: New Survival Philosophy

In my Chemistry class, we covered insecticides. Yes, the 100% DEET stuff is what to go for. Or you can try to find 150 or 200% superconcentrated stuff, but I have never seen those. My chemistry teacher recommends Woodsman or Benz. OTOH throwing in a good mosiquito net would be very helpful, but I'm one to talk. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

#16238 - 06/04/03 12:51 PM Re: This may be a dumb statement

This is a "just for fun" link on fire starting hypergolic reactions. If you carried some of sodium peroxide with you starting fires would be a breeze. Now if only there were an easy way to make sodium peroxide.... <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

#16239 - 06/04/03 01:50 PM Re: New Survival Philosophy

I just returned from a session in the woods of Maine during black fly season. I used a stick of Off, applied generously and thoroughly. I was comfortable while others had to resort to head nets. I think there is some difference in individual susceptability - bugs often go for my wife and daughter (even when they avoid scented products) and leave gnarly wizzened me alone.

#16240 - 06/04/03 02:09 PM Re: This may be a dumb statement

One thing to consider is that you won't be building fresh fires from scratch all that frequently. Even with mediocre wood, you can usually coax last night's fire to life without using matches or lighter to cook breakfast. On one occasion, using a really good desert hardwood (ironwood), we were able to cook breakfast on the still hotly coals from the evening fire without doing a thing. So if you are staying in one spot, you could go days without using your matches.

People BM (before matches) went to some lengths to preserve their fires, even carrying live coals from camp to camp. When sulphur matches were introduced they were wildly popular and replaced flint and steel rather quickly.

#16241 - 06/04/03 03:00 PM Re: This may be a dumb statement
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
We should all remember Ruzz is still in that wonderfull phase of life before society demands specific patterns of behavior 24/7. <img src="images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> If he wants to mix things up thats well and good. Learning odd bits of skills with utterly no cohesiveness or connection leads to innovation,discovery and fun. I had two friends growing up; one read about the Knights of the Round Table and got laughed at. He is now THE authority on armor and gets to fly all over Europe cataloging and Identifying collections. The other guy was famous for putting things up his nose; marbles @ 10, angry boyfriend's fists @ 16 and finally white powder @ 25. He's on probation now <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Ltes not expect everyone to be so SERIOUS about all this. Having fun in a survival situation is a key element to survival thinking <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

#16242 - 06/04/03 03:25 PM Re: New Survival Philosophy

I would probably favor the 100% deet stuff also.

Consumer Reports says that deet is safe if used according to directions, but over the years, there have been scattered reports of severe neurological effects, most involving children. In areas affected by West Nile virus, the risk of adverse effects from deet, including minor skin reactions, is almost certainly much lower than the riesk of catching the potentially devestating disease.

Consumer Reports offers the following advice on the use of insect repellents:

* Don't use a stronger product than you need. If you're going out for an hour stroll in the evening, you don't ned a product that keeps mosquitoes away for 13 hours. And if two products give equivalent protection, choose the one with the lower deet concentration.

* Follow the application instructions on the product. Using more than the specified amount won't give you extra potection, but may increase your risk.

* Don't apply deet near eyes or mouth, or on broken skin. If using a spray, don't spray your face directly or breathe in the spray mist. Spray the product on your hands and then rub it on your face.

* Don't apply deet under clothing. This can hasten its absorption by the skin. Spray over your clothes, and be sure to wash them before wearing again to avoid spreading the chemical. Deet generally doesn't harm cotton, nylon, or wool, but it cam damage some synthetics such as acetate, rayone, and spandex, along with plastic eyeglasses and watch crystals.

* When you come back inside, wash the repellent off your skin.

* Take precautions with young children. Don't apply deet to infants under 2 months of age. Don't let a young child apply or handle the product, an d don't apply repellent on a child's hands. If uysinga spray, spray your own hands and then rub repellent on the child. The American Academy of Pediatrics currently says deet concentrations of up to 30 percent are safe for adults and for children over the age of 2 months.

Another repellent Consumer Reports tested contained permethrin, which kills bugs on contact, instead of just repelling them. These sprays are for use on clothing, not on skin, and can provide long-lasting protection when you're wearing long-sleeved shirts, long pants, and socks. They tested Repel Permanone, with 0.5 percent permethrin, which kept all mosquitoes from biting for 24 hours, and killed all ticks for two weeks. Consumer Reports says that other sprays with the same amount of permethrin should perform similarly. I don't know whether the permethrin sprays will stain or damage any fabrics or other materials, though. I assume that that info will be on the label.

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