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#160894 - 01/02/09 05:12 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: MedB]
BruceZed Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
The ability to work well with others and barter (skills, knowledge, equipment, food, etc.) will be the most effective addition to your survival skill base in any short, medium or long term survival situations involving more than one person.

Building these skills up is very important and the time to do them is now, not later when you are stuck in the wilderness. The idea of the "lone survivor" seems to make people think basic communications skills, leadership skills, and team building skills are not a necessary part of survival training.

At the end of my University training in outdoor education I was a member of a 94 day canoe expedition that conducted all its decision making using consensus. It was extremely hard paddling 10-12 hours per day, in sometimes very poor conditions, with weeks between food drops, no communications equipments (it was 1989), and having to continually work out consensus decisions. It did teach me how amazing it is to force one self to cooperate on a long-term basis and work with ones small team and those we came across in the wilderness and at settlements we paddled through.

We spent much more time before the expedition working on communications skills, decision making, and team building than on packing or preserving food for the trip. Every hour of team building practise paid off in spades along the way. The scary part is that 20 years later we are all still good friends and even scattered to different cities we meet at least once a year.
_________________________
Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

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#160962 - 01/03/09 01:19 AM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: OldBaldGuy]
AROTC Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
Winning arguments with women requires a Zen approach. Eliminate the desire to win and you will have won.
_________________________
A gentleman should always be able to break his fast in the manner of a gentleman where so ever he may find himself.--Good Omens

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#160974 - 01/03/09 04:15 AM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: OldBaldGuy]
TomP Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 60
Ditto OBG- When you think you have won an argument with the wife it can ony mean that for tactical reasons she felt it in her best interest for you to have this delusion!

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#160981 - 01/03/09 04:51 AM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: OldBaldGuy]
GarlyDog Offline
τΏτ
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 776
Loc: The People's Republic of IL
OBG has is right.

Show me a man who wins arguments with his wife, and I will show you a man who will at some point be in need of a divorce attorney.



_________________________
Gary








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#162437 - 01/11/09 06:08 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: Desperado]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Originally Posted By: Desperado

Did you enjoy the B4 identifier school? I thought is was harder than airborne and air assault combined.


Sorry, I did not see this one before, I should pay closer attention.

For the "B4" identifier, I went to the USMC Scout Sniper Instructor Course in Quantico VA. We didn't have an ASI for it until fairly recently. It was more challenging than the other schools you mention. it also gives you skills for accomplishing the mission, not just a way to get there. The Army always focused too much on infiltration skills and (in my opinion, until lately) not enough on doing your job once you got there. Sniper, SERE and the CQB schools were probably my favorites, although HALO was a lot of fun also. Most people do not realize how difficult it is to jump from an aircraft at 25,000 + feet AGL in pitch black night, with 200 pounds of equipment strapped to you, stay formed up with your team in free fall and all land within 100 meters of the designated point on the ground. It isn't skydiving.

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#162443 - 01/11/09 06:16 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: gonewiththewind]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
HALO, My DD saw a special on the discovery channel and wants to try. I tried free fall in the civilian world and learned I CANNOT fly my body well. I have a pronounced tendency to slowly spin to the right.


Edited by Desperado (01/11/09 06:24 PM)
Edit Reason: Darn spell check
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#162451 - 01/11/09 07:27 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: MedB]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Originally Posted By: MedB
Some of the comments here have me thinking. Let me ask you all a question.

In your opinion, what's more important in a truly large-scale disaster/survival scenario...

...tactical communication skills from an authorative standpoint?

or

...persuasive communication skills from a cooperative standpoint?




I think MedB raises a valid point.
Are you trying to order people to comply with your plan or are you trying to get them co-operating to solve a problem?
There are times where both approaches are valid.
There are also times when one or the other of these approaches just will not help.

The authoritarian approach does work to reduce confusion and situational paralysis, but the consensus approach often gives better actual plans to solve the emergency.

I guess if you are a trained medic/cop/soldier you are going to assume command of an emergency and tell the people around you what to do.
But in some cases you might be better to just help the people to organize their own response because they might know how to use local resources better once they understand which problems they need to solve.

EDIT:
In a lot of cases people are plenty smart enough to solve a problem, but don't have decision making skills because they have been taught all their lives to only do what they are told to do. So they need somebody to do that for them.


Edited by scafool (01/11/09 07:41 PM)
Edit Reason: add it edit.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#162458 - 01/11/09 08:05 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: Desperado]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Originally Posted By: Desperado
HALO, My DD saw a special on the discovery channel and wants to try. I tried free fall in the civilian world and learned I CANNOT fly my body well. I have a pronounced tendency to slowly spin to the right.

It is all in relaxing. Slow spin is very easy to correct.

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#162460 - 01/11/09 08:09 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: scafool]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
You must use whatever approach is required for the situation. If everyone is looking to you for guidance, then they are more easily led and do not need much persuasion. Many people will need more persuasion and guidance along the "right" path (the one you want to follow) by involving them in the decision making process and ensuring that their concerns are addressed. That doesn't mean that they will be guiding the process. If you are a good listener and communicator, you will find that people will naturally begin to follow you. You do not need to be the subject matter expert, just the one who can make everyone cooperate with each other for the benefit of the group. A person who talks too much, and doesn't say much, will not have the credibility to lead effectively.

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#162464 - 01/11/09 08:22 PM Re: Survival Skill not discussed much [Re: gonewiththewind]
Johno Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 214
Loc: Scotland
HALO is for normal folk, HANO is hardcore smile
_________________________
Follow the Sapper

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