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#156916 - 12/03/08 12:33 AM Re: Gasoline/ethanol mixes harmful to generators [Re: RayW]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
E10 is common in almost all gasoline these days in states that don't meet EPA air quality standards. As I think about it, Oklahoma is the only state I have been in recently that doesn't have to use E10. I actually saw fuel stations advertising what they called "Real Gas". I haven't noticed any trouble with E10 in my small engines yet, but E85 is another story entirely. YMMV

Now ULSFD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) is another story all together. The reformulation of said Diesel (waste by-product of distillation) took a really affordable fuel and drove the price through the roof. Maybe someone can explain that on for me. I was advised by Ford that my 2005 F350 needed an additive to make-up for the sulfur removed from the fuel. Again, YMMV

Maybe a chemist from the Houston area could help on this one???????


Edited by Desperado (12/03/08 12:35 AM)
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#156917 - 12/03/08 12:37 AM Re: Gasoline/ethanol mixes harmful to generators [Re: Desperado]
GarlyDog Offline
τΏτ
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 776
Loc: The People's Republic of IL
Thanks for the heads up on this issue ethanol in small engines. I will also pick up the maintenance parts you suggested.
_________________________
Gary








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#156924 - 12/03/08 01:54 AM Re: Gasoline/ethanol mixes harmful to generators [Re: Desperado]
Nishnabotna Offline
Icon of Sin
Addict

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Desperado
I haven't noticed any trouble with E10 in my small engines yet, but E85 is another story entirely. YMMV


E85 is ONLY for engines designated for E85. You can't put that into just anything.

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#156926 - 12/03/08 02:00 AM Re: Gasoline/ethanol mixes harmful to generators [Re: Nishnabotna]
Grouch Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 395
Loc: Ohio
I have a Honda generator so, based on Blast's post #1, I visited Honda's web site to see where they stand on the issue. Here's the FAQ on ethanol:

Quote:
What fuel should I use in my Honda?

Honda engines are designed and certified to run on regular unleaded gasoline.

Gasoline is allowed, by regulation, to contain a variety of additives. The same regulation limits how much of some additives, such as alcohol, can be included in the fuel and still allow it to be sold as gasoline. A maximum of 10% ethanol is allowed in gasoline (other oxygenates are also listed). Honda engines are designed for good performance and efficient operation using gasoline containing from 0 to 10% ethanol.
E85, a mixture of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, has been in the news recently. E85 is an alternative fuel; it is not gasoline. Honda engines are not designed or certified to run on E85 or any other alternative fuel. Always refer to your owner's manual for a list of recommended fuel and the current approved additives.


I've had my generator for a few years now and I always run the gas tank dry before storage. I used it last week for the first time in 2-3 years and it started on the second pull. I'm not saying that ethanol won't eventually cause problems but I have seen no evidence of trouble - yet.

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#157027 - 12/04/08 02:28 AM Re: Gasoline/ethanol mixes harmful to generators [Re: Desperado]
harstad Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 71
Originally Posted By: Desperado
E10 is common in almost all gasoline these days in states that don't meet EPA air quality standards. As I think about it, Oklahoma is the only state I have been in recently that doesn't have to use E10. I actually saw fuel stations advertising what they called "Real Gas". I haven't noticed any trouble with E10 in my small engines yet, but E85 is another story entirely. YMMV

Now ULSFD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) is another story all together. The reformulation of said Diesel (waste by-product of distillation) took a really affordable fuel and drove the price through the roof. Maybe someone can explain that on for me. I was advised by Ford that my 2005 F350 needed an additive to make-up for the sulfur removed from the fuel. Again, YMMV

Maybe a chemist from the Houston area could help on this one???????


Blame the Enviro's. I have a 2005 F350 as well and I have never heard this. Your engine should run fine with the new ULSD. The new engines can't take the old stuff very well, at least '07 and on.

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#157029 - 12/04/08 02:40 AM Re: Gasoline/ethanol mixes harmful to generators [Re: harstad]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Give this stuff a try. Have fad good results. YMMV EDIT: LINK


Edited by Desperado (12/04/08 02:41 AM)
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#157043 - 12/04/08 10:08 AM Re: Gasoline/ethanol mixes harmful to generators [Re: JohnE]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Originally Posted By: JohnE

As for the running on corn oil, I think you may be thinking of the original diesel engine which was actually run on coal oil and can now run on vegetable oil. I have 2 Mercedes Benz diesels that have been modified to run on used vegetable oil. Works like a charm. And of course there's also bio-diesel which is simply refined vegetable oil, another great alternative to both gasoline as well as petroleum diesel.

John E





Interesting. I had always thought he developed it originally to run on vegetable oil so farmers would have a readily available source of fuel for their equipement. Then I also found this piece. Ammonia for diesel fuel?

Quote:

Backed by Baron von Krupp and Machinenfabrik Augsburg Nurnberg Company in Germany, he began experimenting with a high-pressure ammonia engine. In 1892 Rudolf Diesel was issued a patent for a proposed engine that air would be compressed so much that the temperature would far exceed the ignition temperature of the fuel. In other words, no spark would be needed to ignite te mixture.

His backers provided him with engineers to help him develop an engine that would burn coal dust -- at the time, there were mountains of useless coal dust piled up in the Ruhr valley.

Experimental engines

The first experimental engine was built in 1893 and used high pressure air to blast the coal dust into the combustion chamber. While the prototype blew its cylinder head off but, four years later, Diesel produced a reasonably reliable engine. His ideas for an engine where the combustion would be carried out within the cylinder were published in 1893, one year after he applied for his first patent.

Further developments using coal dust as fuel failed. A compression ignition engine that used oil as fuel was successful and a number of manufacturers were licensed to build similar engines.


http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=9773


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#157055 - 12/04/08 02:51 PM Re: Gasoline/ethanol mixes harmful to generators [Re: Blast]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Thanks. We are 'bout ready to buy a Honda 2000, I will look for a few spare parts at the same time...
_________________________
OBG

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#157153 - 12/05/08 12:17 AM Re: Gasoline/ethanol mixes harmful to generators [Re: Blast]
Resqdan Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 9
Loc: ND
This is a good point that alot of people probably dont know.. the key to it is dont leave ethanol fuel in the tank.. if you have to run it.. run it dry and fill with regular unleaded..
If you mix fuel for a 2-stroke.. never use ethanol.. the oil separates very very fast causing your engine to run with straight fuel-no oil, which will cause it to burn up

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#157155 - 12/05/08 12:31 AM Re: Gasoline/ethanol mixes harmful to generators [Re: Resqdan]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: Resqdan
This is a good point that alot of people probably dont know.. the key to it is dont leave ethanol fuel in the tank.. if you have to run it.. run it dry and fill with regular unleaded..
If you mix fuel for a 2-stroke.. never use ethanol.. the oil separates very very fast causing your engine to run with straight fuel-no oil, which will cause it to burn up


Since all Gasoline is E10 where I am, how do you suggest avoiding ethanol for 2 cycle applications?
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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