On the news last night, I notice a US troop carrying a Steyr AUG assault rifle. Are you changing to that as your standard rifle or was that a personal weapon?

we im defenatly not an expert, but i sure know that isn't a US army or marinis issue rifle ! As far as i know AR-15 are THE standard issue assault rifle. And i have heard they are going to replase there AR-15 with something else ( forgot the name ) which is basically a Heckler & Koch G36 with AR-15 sights, stock, etc.

Yes, I share your interest in weapons and I also know that at the moment it isn't the standard issue, but I thought they might be making a change. I didn't know that they're adopting the G3.

The US is still using M-16 series rifles (M-16A2, A3, A4, and the M-4 series carbines) as their standard rifle. Given the current political situation, the chance of the US adopting the G-36 would be remote. (The G3 is out of production.)

The current debate in the US concerns the stopping power of the M-4 series carbines at distance. It's the 5.56mm vs. 7.62mm argument all over again. There are several stories out of Afghanistan and Iraq of multiple hits being required after 150 - 200 meters. I can not confirm the accuracy of the reports, but they seem numerous and from varied sources.

I have owned and fired the M-16 (AR-15), the AUG, HK rifles and Kalashnikov rifles (freely, legally, and NEVER a threat to my neighbors...), and the AUG is the finest production military rifle in use today. Period. There is NO competition.

There. Now that I've utterly settled this question, let's get back to heated arguments over water purification or the like. I love those. <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

.....CLIFF

The debate goes beyond 5.56 vs .308. The Afghans were successfullly sniping kalashnikov equipped Soviets with FLINTLOCKS and SMLEs. The whole debate was summed rather nicely by Sir Winston Churchill in his History of the English Speaking Peoples. "for smashing longheads or roundheads, Iron is definitely superior to bronze."

I know, I know. This has nothing whatsoever to do with water purification, but I cant resist. Here goes....

To me, the debate is all about range. Since it was decided back in the '40s that the maximum effective combat range for an infantry rifle was no more than 300 meters, the acceptable stopping power the ammunition has decreased. .303 and .30-'06 gave way to 7.62X51 (NATO), which has, to a large degree, given way to 5.56X45. Even the Sov.. ,sorry, Russians, went this route, though for rather different doctrinal reasons.

In Afghanistan, where engagements often bagan at 300+ meters, mortars and the 7.62mm GPMGs were the most effective infantry weapons. I found it interesting that in the images coming out of Afghanistan in late 2001, many Northern Alliance soldiers carried the Russian 7.62R PK and PKM GP machine guns as their primary weapon - and not Kalashmikovs.

So I guess what I'm saying, Chris, is that I agree with you. I think.

.....CLIFF

P.S. Nice bit quoting the most important person ever to live in the 20th century.

Can US soldiers carry personnal weapons, or did I just dream that I saw that Steyr AUG?

along the same line :

in the movie "Black Hawk Down", when the Rangers arm themself before taking off for the mission, it looks like they take the equipment they want, which induced severe problems later on :
- not enough water, partial body armor, no NV googles, etc ....

Is that a movie exaggeration or what ? Are privates free to select their equipment ??

Just wondering. And curious !
(reading the book afterwards, it seems the movie was quite accurate)


Alain

Are privates free to select their equipment ??

Typically, no. Squad leaders or section sergeants would inspect the men to make sure they were carrying the required equipment. What went wrong in Somolia was that they had done several of this type of raid previously and each time the plan went off without a hitch. By the time of this mission the the thinking sort of developed "Well the last 3 times I didn't need NVGs, extra water, whatever" and so essential gear was left behind. It was a failure in leadership. About the only exception is when it comes to ammo. Then you take at least the prescribed load, as much extra as you want, and maybe a little more.

Ed

Thanks for the explanation.


Alain