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#147418 - 09/04/08 09:41 PM A couple of videos I saw today
LeeG Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 100
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Not really sure these are pertinent to the forum, but they were pretty interesting.

Don't talk to the police - Part 1

Don't talk to the police - part 2


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#147530 - 09/05/08 06:31 PM Re: A couple of videos I saw today [Re: LeeG]
TheSock Offline
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Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
I didn't have the patience to sit through the full 49 minutes but if the professor continued as he started. I.e he would never talk to a police officer. That is bad advice.

"So you say you shot a 'mugger with a knife'. But no one can back up your story and there's no knife.

Now you are telling us you could have pointed out the knife got thrown across the street in the struggle and if we'd looked at the time we'd have found it and his dna on it. But a passer-by must have picked it up since
And you could have told us a crowd saw the whole thing and if questioned could have verified your story?
And you could have told us his cronies were heading up the street and we could have caught them.
But you chose not to tell us any of these things that would have proved your innocence. So what we have is you admitting to shooting a man who we have no evidence was an armed threat to you.
Congratulations on standing up for your right to silence!
Do you like prison food?"

The Sock



_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#147768 - 09/07/08 02:19 PM Re: A couple of videos I saw today [Re: TheSock]
TheSock Offline
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Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
I watched the videos and the second one especially is funny.
Worth watching if you think you could not give yourself away in a police interview.
But the lecturers claim that no one has ever talked themselves out of being arrested is simply untrue.
When I wore the blue I didn't arrest many people because of what they said to me.
Brilliant defenses like
'no I'm not him, he lives next door'
'no that's my brother, he's in the kitchen'
'no i wasn't involved in any fight down the road, I've just come out of that pub where I was all night. The staff will confirm that.

Of course if you ARE guilty. Shut up. They shouldn't even know what your voice sounds like if they only meet you in the interview room.

The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#147899 - 09/08/08 12:28 PM Re: A couple of videos I saw today [Re: TheSock]
NAro Offline
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Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 495
Originally Posted By: TheSock
But you chose not to tell us any of these things that would have proved your innocence.


Sock, different recommendations for different judicial systems. I don't doubt your advice is helpful in the UK.

Here in the USA we have no expectation or obligation to "prove our innocence." Even though the video speech-rate was amazing, the content was the same as I've heard again and again both from attorneys and from law enforcement officers. If THEY were the ones being questioned, they wouldn't talk without an attorney. But that's here in the USA and not in your country, so I don't presume to contradict you.

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#147907 - 09/08/08 01:17 PM Re: A couple of videos I saw today [Re: NAro]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
A fellow officer once got involved in an off duty shooting. When the officers (from a different agency) arrived at the scene, the shooter would not tell them anything. The victim, now missing two fingers (thanks to grabbing the muzzle of a loaded, off safety shotgun and yanking), just said "he shot me." Witnesses, all friends of the victim, all said "he shot him." So the officer got booked for ADW. Later, when his association rep (kinda like a union rep) arrived and talked to him, the officer then told how he was trying to make an off duty arrest and the victim grabbed his weapon (there might be a little more to the story, but that is not important here). Cell door open, home he went. But only after spending a night in jail, which is never fun. Had he told his story first, he never would have seen the inside of the cell...
_________________________
OBG

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#147953 - 09/08/08 05:56 PM Re: A couple of videos I saw today [Re: OldBaldGuy]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
Atually Naro the shooting scenario is a quote from massad ayoob the US gun writer.
But i appreciate what you say. our caution on arrest goes:

'You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.'

So you could go to court with 6 people providing an alibi
and the judge (note not the prosection; the judge!) will be pointing out you sat in a police station for a week without telling them you had an alibi and now suddenly when
you have had the opportunity to brief them they turn up. And they should regard that as an indication of guilt.

Maybe you have a right to silence that can't be used against you.
But as OBG says when it's a simple matter of explaning why not talk?
The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#147957 - 09/08/08 06:24 PM Re: A couple of videos I saw today [Re: TheSock]
Doug_SE_MI Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 35
Loc: Michigan
I have shot, fatally, in self defense. The county prosecutor, an elected politician, turned a situation the police, a major city homicide detail, considered clear self defense into a homicide prosecution to appease community activists (long before Niphong).

I was eventually acquitted by a jury that also found self defense. The prosecution, with a 911 call before the incident in my favor, eye witnesses supporting self defense and the forensic evidence in my favor, tried to twist my words to make me the aggressor.

One lesson I took from my experience, tell the officer's who respond that you acted in self defense and then shut up until you have an attorney. The second lesson, have a lawyer familiar with self defense before you need her...

Doug

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#148017 - 09/09/08 12:59 AM Re: A couple of videos I saw today [Re: Doug_SE_MI]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Welcome Newguy! Glad your incident turned out the way it did...
_________________________
OBG

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#148047 - 09/09/08 04:54 AM Re: A couple of videos I saw today [Re: OldBaldGuy]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
I think Doug has it. When you meet the officers tell them what it's in your interest for them to know.
At the interview stage; shut up till you have a lawyer there.
Like the videos said I've never known anyone in an interview room talk themselves out of trouble.
The videos don't clearly distinguish between the intial meeting with the police and the interview stage.
But spending a week in a cell because you refused to say 'no he lives next door' is silly.
Sorry you got lumbered with the adversial court system Doug. Britains worst contribution to it's former colonies!
The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#148100 - 09/09/08 03:03 PM Re: A couple of videos I saw today [Re: TheSock]
Doug_SE_MI Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 35
Loc: Michigan
In my case, as least, the adversarial system worked. And in hind sight being tried and acquitted was probably better than not being charged. In some states, like Michigan, not being charged leaves the record open and it can never be expunged. It can follow you the rest of your life (it does anyway, but nice to close the official record.

Acquittal is final judgment. More over the state where I was tried had law providing for specific verdict in cases of self defense. I was not just acquitted because the prosecution couldn't prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I was acquitted by a jury verdict that I had proved by preponderance of the evidence that I was in danger of being killed or great bodily harm, I did nothing to provoke or invite that danger and I used only the force reasonably necessary.

It is just like any other situation one may be have to survive. It helps to be equipped both mentally and physically. And like any other disaster, it isn't something I'd wish on anyone. I was a college student and apartment manager at the time, but before going to college had served 4 years in the Marines and been a small town police officer for a couple years. That training and experience prepared me for a situation where most other college students would have just become another violent crime statistic.

But I wasn't prepared to survive the legal battle that followed. I got lucky, and by serendipity, was socially acquainted with a good lawyer. I was also lucky to have the emotional and financial support of my employer and family.

Doug

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