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#147522 - 09/05/08 05:41 PM Re: 72 hour kit without a knife recommended in Wash DC [Re: Lono]
Rodion Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 285
Loc: Israel
Well - and this is unlikely, I know - you may need to cut a rope. Or traverse a small patch of dense woods. Or take down a branch. Or shave wood for tinder. Or, I don't know, decide not to become dog food. I'm just sayin'...
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#147523 - 09/05/08 05:48 PM Re: 72 hour kit without a knife recommended in Wash DC [Re: Rodion]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
Originally Posted By: Rodion
Wait, wait, wait.

Didn't we just have someone (sorry, I'm bad with names. You know, the guy...) deliver a heated speech about how nobody is going to take anything away at shelters? Does this mean they were, well, wrong?


if you were referring to my comment that aligator seemed to be worrying he'll be forced into a shelter and at the same time worried he won't be allowed in.

Then that is not what you are claiming I said is it? I'm just pointing out they are contradictory worries. Wether you get knives taken off you or not in shelters I have no idea.

If you are not referring to me; apologies.

And i certainly did not intend any discussion I take part in to be heated. I think Aligator had an Escape and Evasion kit and a Bug out Bag confused. That was not meant as a personal criticism. I wish I had a pound for every time I'd been confused.

Agree with you on governments wanting to keep us frightened. Once you look at what the media and organisations tell us, it is usually aimed at that. So we'll need them.
The Sock
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#147525 - 09/05/08 05:55 PM Re: 72 hour kit without a knife recommended in Wash DC [Re: Lono]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Lono
snip...
I'm mentally wandering around DC now, and finding not alot to cut or slice. I have a sandwich or meat so far, if someone gave them to me, but the knife is actually not *necessary* to eat those. And for purposes of the mental exercise, gutting and cleaning a deer or other animal is not very common in DC, at least among the urban population of folks who don't already eat rats and squirrels every day. And amateur tracheotomies in the service of dying pedestrians are off the table as well. There's some argument that having a knife can aid in personal protection. Help me out a little here, I'm not being imaginative enough. I don't EDC a knife, so I'm missing out on a level of ingenuity that a DC person will employ after an emergency.


This is going to come off as sarcastic but please don't take it that way.

Why aren't you mentally preparing to shelter in place -or- load up your belonging and evacuate -or- do some expedient repairs on your car/shoes/backpack/home/etc?

I use a pocket knife just about every day. Maybe I could carry scissors, screwdriver(s), a file and several other implements instead but a knife is much handier.

$.02 & YMMV
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"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

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#147526 - 09/05/08 06:08 PM Re: 72 hour kit without a knife recommended in Wash DC [Re: Lono]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3609
Loc: TX
Potential cutting situations I can imagine in a Red Cross Shelter:
1. Opening boxes, MRE's, or other packaging.
2. Making bandages or slings.
3. Cutting food into child-sized peices.
4. Altering clothing.
5. Splicing wires.
6. Poking hole in cap of water bottle to make it spill-proof for child.
7. Cutting rope for makeshift curtains/privacy walls.

A trauma shears could do most of this stuff, but would be tricky for some.

-Blast





Edited by Blast (09/05/08 06:09 PM)
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#147531 - 09/05/08 06:34 PM Re: 72 hour kit without a knife recommended in Wash DC [Re: 7point82]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: 7point82

This is going to come off as sarcastic but please don't take it that way.

Why aren't you mentally preparing to shelter in place -or- load up your belonging and evacuate -or- do some expedient repairs on your car/shoes/backpack/home/etc?

I use a pocket knife just about every day. Maybe I could carry scissors, screwdriver(s), a file and several other implements instead but a knife is much handier.

$.02 & YMMV


Not sarcastic at all, thanks. I think if you're sheltering in place or loading up your belongings, you'll have access to knives and pocket knives. The question
was about a Go Kit for residents of Washington DC, which assumes some sort of urban evacuation scenario. You're either leaving because you want to (short deadline
until a bomb explodes) or because you have to (guys in trucks with megaphones imposing martial law and pointing you to Fairfax Co).

Believe me, whatever the government says, I'll have a pocket knife on me when I leave my front door. I'm just wondering why the average person needs a knife in their
GoKit to get out of DC.

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#147533 - 09/05/08 06:40 PM Re: 72 hour kit without a knife recommended in Wash DC [Re: Blast]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: Blast
Potential cutting situations I can imagine in a Red Cross Shelter:
1. Opening boxes, MRE's, or other packaging.
2. Making bandages or slings.
3. Cutting food into child-sized peices.
4. Altering clothing.
5. Splicing wires.
6. Poking hole in cap of water bottle to make it spill-proof for child.
7. Cutting rope for makeshift curtains/privacy walls.

A trauma shears could do most of this stuff, but would be tricky for some.

-Blast



All useful situations in a Red Cross shelter - and if you're put to work opening boxes, helping in First Aid, or general maintenance I bet they give you a box cutters or other appropriate tools. I think the point of the Red Cross ban is focussed on those who are sheltered, keeping them out of their hands and reducing the incidence of injury through short tempers and long hours.

But I think your list gets a little hypothetical near the end - doubtful they'd want someone without an electrician's license splicing wires in a shelter, and I think they'd be happy to poke a hole in a water bottle for you if it helps you out. The one I can't say on is whether you're encouraged to set up makeshift curtains/privacy walls, that cuts both ways, both for privacy and safety of shelter occupants.

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#147536 - 09/05/08 06:53 PM Re: 72 hour kit without a knife recommended in Was [Re: Lono]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
Ok, I'll bite - here are some scenarios where my knife(s) would come in handy in an urban/shelter environment. For reference I work in an urban / office environment and tend to carry a wenger esquire moneyclip knife (small blade, small scissors, nail file) a small locking folder (think benchmite size) for slightly more serious work and a small multi-tool (squirt E4).

Here are the sorts of things that just the moneyclip knife can be used for:

Opening boxes / packages - it seems everything is buried in plastic or cardboard with strapping tape these days. I think this would include some prepackaged supplies the shelter might have around.

nail file is tolerable as a mini, very light weight prybar (for opening stuck battery doors on radios, toys etc.)

nail file is tolerable makeshift screwdriver (standard and phillips)

cutting tape - I can't ever get the stuff to tear evenly.

whittling plastic things down to a size that I can run them though various size holes (think running electrical cords)

opening watch to replace battery (careful, this is a great way to cut yourself).

stripping wires - takes some practice to avoid nicking the copper.

Getting CDs/DVDs out of those annoying slot loading drives.

punching a bigger vent hole in my coffee cup smile

prybar for lifting Coca-Cola can tabs smile

Getting coins unstuck in the feed slot for vending machines.

Cutting those annoying zip ties that are everywhere these days

Cutting fabric into strips - lots of possibilities from bandages to restraints to lashing.

Jimmying the wimpy locks on most cheap office desks/modular furniture (takes some practice and doesn't always work) to find more supplies/options. I am not advocating theft/looting but I have broken into my own desk a couple of times.

changing jumpers on computer equipment (scissors & nail file).

That extra 2" stretch for the thing that just fell behind the partition and is almost in reach.

Shorting out low voltage lines - think doorbells, various control circuits - please be sure it is low voltage before proceeding.

I am sure others will think of several things I missed.

- Eric

Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.&#8232;- General George Patton Jr
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You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#147537 - 09/05/08 06:59 PM Re: 72 hour kit without a knife recommended in Was [Re: Lono]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
I fully agree with this one from Blast:

Poking hole in cap of water bottle to make it spill-proof for child.

I have to do that all the time and it is not just "poke a hole" it is take the lid off and cut a straw sized hole in the lid before replacing. That is the only way I would ever give DS or DD a bottle of water to drink unless I wanted to dry out lots of stuff.

- Eric

Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory. - -General George Patton Jr


_________________________
You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#147538 - 09/05/08 06:59 PM Re: 72 hour kit without a knife recommended in Wash DC [Re: Lono]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
First Lono I think you have this the wrong way round. People should be allowed to do anything till it's proven they should have that right taken away from them. Not them having to prove they should keep it.

And 'In a shelter' assumes you make it that far without problem. If you were evacuating a city it'd be for a reason. A lot can go wrong.
Someone can need cutting out of a car or seatbelt. You might need to cut your way through the roof in a flood. You might need to cut an injured person out of their clothes to bandage them or cut open a tin of food you've found. Prise your way out of a lift, cut through an interior wall. Improvise a stove from an old can to keep warm, Cut up furniture for the stuffing as installation. Improvise a crutch...
It's a list as long as your imagination.
The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#147547 - 09/05/08 07:43 PM Re: 72 hour kit without a knife recommended in Wash DC [Re: TheSock]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Obviously the majority of posters to this forum won't be assaulting other evacuees.Less obvious apparently is we have utterly no idea of intent by other people. So, shall we raise the bar to allow a B.A.R. in our personal kit?

I think, since nobody has mentioned metal detectors or strip searches , SOP in this situation is to slip your multi tool, pocket knife or Battlemistress into this nifty clothing feature- it's called a pocket and heed that greatly under appreciated Nimrod Elmer Fudd's very sage advise while being foil to Bugs and Daffy, " Be wery wery quiet."

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