Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#145413 - 08/22/08 10:00 PM Speaking of precious metals...
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
What about the idea I read on a "survivalism" website that advocated saving rolls of nickels?

Apparently the writer knows that the U.S. mints will soon be using less nickel when they make the nickels that they make and he's convinced that having hundreds of dollars worth of "real" nickels will be a great thing.

I noticed he didn't mention what the collector of nickels is supposed to do with his or her nickels when the SHTF nickel wise but I suppose that's a topic for a paid subscription website along the lines of Rich Dad, poor Schmuck or whatever it's called.

John E

P.S. worst case I suppose one could use the rolls of nickels as an EDC weapon...;^)
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


Top
#145418 - 08/22/08 10:31 PM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: JohnE]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Emergency preparedness attracts no small number of screw ball ideas. I recently slapped a noob around in another forum because he wanted to put a 37mm flare/gas gun in his BoB. He's convinced it is a good idea. Never mind that he can't give a specific need for it, talking instead of vague generalities.

These would be a little more useful. A little. If you want to horde coins, try for silver dimes. Smaller, lighter, and worth more than face value. A little more.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#145489 - 08/23/08 03:00 AM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: JohnE]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
What about the idea I read on a "survivalism" website that advocated saving rolls of nickels?

I know of the site you speak of, and the rational behind it.

Apparently the writer knows that the U.S. mints will soon be using less nickel when they make the nickels that they make and he's convinced that having hundreds of dollars worth of "real" nickels will be a great thing.

This is based in fact on the metal (copper) content of current and past pennies and a recent statement by the US Mint on the future metal (nickel) content of coinage.

I noticed he didn't mention what the collector of nickels is supposed to do with his or her nickels when the SHTF nickel wise but I suppose that's a topic for a paid subscription website along the lines of Rich Dad, poor Schmuck or whatever it's called.

The current metal value of a US 5 cent piece is about 7.5 cents.

Do the math, and save your nickels.

End of (*&^# rant.

Except for:

Sorry, Ironraven (Head Geek, IMNSHO),

Emergency preparedness attracts no small number of screw ball ideas. I recently slapped a noob around in another forum because he wanted to put a 37mm flare/gas gun in his BoB. He's convinced it is a good idea. Never mind that he can't give a specific need for it, talking instead of vague generalities.

These would be a little more useful. A little. If you want to horde coins, try for silver dimes. Smaller, lighter, and worth more than face value. A little more.


If you can afford silver. If not, horde nickels. After you have the whole food/water/shelter thang taken care of.

37mm equates to 12 gauge. Not a bad idea, if you want to kill yourself with the wrong ammo. On the other hand, if you have an actual 12ga...nevermind. Don't do this at home.

Crap, I tried to disagree w/the geek and failed.

On the other hand, a sock puppet (:) of nickels is always a no-brainer. Or a brainer. Sorry, roo much coffee smile

http://www.biomedcert.com




Edited by billy.guttery (08/23/08 03:13 AM)
_________________________
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

Top
#145496 - 08/23/08 03:59 AM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: NeighborBill]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: billy.guttery
37mm equates to 12 gauge.


Uhmm... No. 12ga is around 18mm, about 3/4". A 37mm is closer to an inch and a half. He basically was talking about using it to deploy smoke cannisters and using flares as poor-boy WP rounds in a counter ambush situation. Not sure if he's watched too many movies, or doesn't realize that squad and platoon-level tactics don't translate to one or two people very well.

Originally Posted By: billy.guttery
Crap, I tried to disagree w/the geek and failed.


If I didn't like you, I'd point out my customers try and fail to do that every day, but but I do value your opinion even if we don't always agree. As a result, I will not insult you by comparing you to my dead beat customers.

And part of why I discount the idea of hording nickels of a certain date is because so long as the nickel is US currency, it's only going to be worth five cents. With the mixed metal coinage, you aren't going to be able to separate the nickel from the copper if you melt them down in a backyard foundry. Even if you could, the penalty is what? 5 years and 10K if you get caught? The risks don't outweigh the gains. Not until there is no more US Government.

To Joe Average, it's not worth much as a practical item, so as a PAW prep, it's pretty much a null. If we are getting Mad Max here, then there is plenty of good alloys just sitting around waiting to be banged into new shapes. Nickel would only be of real value in a TEOTWAKI situation to a neo-alchemist.

In a more practical and logical scenario, if you want to collect coins as an investment/hobby, go for it. My grandfather did that, and in times of need the family has sold some of his coins and stamps. But if you want to invest in them as a metal, its going to be a while before they are worth more than five cents no matter how much it costs to make them.

The reason I mentioned dimes is a silver dime is pure silver- melt it down and you have silver. That has some properties that are readily exploitable in a low-probability scenario- high silver solder is still almost unbeaten for electronics solder, and even some more practical metal working applications. It can be used for fillings. It can be changed into other forms. And silver dimes are old enough and have been so ruthlessly culled from circulation that they are going to do be dismissed as pocket change- they have real value for collectors. It's going to be decades before the nickels do unless you find something like a mistamp.

If you want to invest in small, easily negotiated metal bits.... Catalytic converters are going to be a better return on your money. And with a better risk:profit ratio. *laughs* And if I find you under my car with a hacksaw, I'll be rather annoyed.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#145546 - 08/23/08 04:50 PM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: ironraven]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
Good points but I notice you, billy, also failed to mention what the nickel collector is supposed to do with all of his rolls of nickels when the SHTF? Or even prior to that for that matter.

Sell em? Who's gonna pay more than face value for a bunch of nickels? Smelt them? And then what? Let's, for the sake of argument, say I have 20 pounds worth of saved up nickels, I melt them down and now I have 20 pounds worth of nickel alloy. How does this help me in a post cataclysmic world?

I'm not opposed to the idea of saving/hoarding but there's got to be a reason behind it or it's just mindless.

John E


Edited by JohnE (08/23/08 11:22 PM)
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


Top
#145549 - 08/23/08 05:30 PM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: JohnE]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
The intent on saving nickels was not to benefit post-TEOWATKI, but an inflation hedge (even though selling coins overseas for metal content is probably illegal).
_________________________
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

Top
#145564 - 08/23/08 10:22 PM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: NeighborBill]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: billy.guttery
(even though selling coins overseas for metal content is quite illegal).


Billy, I fixed the quote for you. smile

I double checked- it is 5 years and $10K for selling US coinage for scape. Per offense, it they really want to play nasty. That's like the guy who bought a couple of Tommy guns and a BAR just before NFA 34 kicked in. Sure, great profit when he sold them 35 years later. Problem was that word got out. *laughs* Some investment.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#145569 - 08/23/08 11:22 PM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: ironraven]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
Ok, it's meant to be an inflation hedge. How does saving a couple hundred dollars worth of nickels hedge against inflation vs saving any other type of currency specifically? Hell, let's go crazy and stipulate that you've got thousands of dollars worth socked away in your 30 caliber ammo cans.

The only way that hoarding nickels is a hedge against anything is if they become worth more in value than the rate of inflation, given that the average person isn't going to or can't save enough in nickels to do anything with, where are they going to sell them or trade them pre or post apocalypse? Is there going to be a huge shortage of nickels in the future that no one is talking about? If there is, does it really matter?

As for the criminal aspects of reselling currency for scrap, if we're talking post apocalypse, I doubt that the Secret Service or the Treasury Dept. will have enforcing that law at the top of their agendas but even if they do, so what?

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, just trying to figure out the mindset of someone advocating saving boxes of nickels...vs something more tangible, like say, food for instance. Or fuel. Or almost anything else I can think of...

John E
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


Top
#145598 - 08/24/08 06:23 AM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: JohnE]
weldon Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 64
The other point that was brought up is in cases of hyper inflation they generally don't re-issue coins, just bills. The governments just takes a zero off of things and leaves the coins the way they are. So if $50 goes to, but a nickel stays a nickel you are getting a 10x return on your investment. Not saying I agree with the thinking, or the chances of hyper inflation like that, but I guess anything is possible and that is another reason that was posted.

Top
#145622 - 08/24/08 01:10 PM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: JohnE]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
I whole-heartedly agree with you, and so does the original proponent of nickel-saving.

Get the bullets, beans, and band-aids squared away first. If you can afford it buy gold. If not, buy silver. If you're so broke you can't afford to buy silver then get nickels.

And that's all I have to say about it--I am so done thinking about this topic smile

And before you ask, NO, I don't have gold, silver, or nickels. What I have is a lot of ammo...food...water...enough medical equipment and supplies to outfit a brigade. With enough friends, I will have no problem getting gold, silver, or nickels post TEOWATKI smile

Zimbabwe recently started allowing coinage again. What happened was that people dug out all their old coins and spent 'em.

Didn't do them any good, as the zeroes just got lopped off the end of the denominations...so their old coins probably bought 1/1,000,000 what they did when they were minted.

_________________________
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

Top
#145623 - 08/24/08 01:18 PM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: ironraven]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
<bows>

Thank you, sir. Good thing that the only stuff _I_ hoard isn't illegal yet...and God help us if any of it ever is.

Then again, is some states it is illegal to have more than two weeks' worth of food...If by some accident I should ever win the lottery, I think I'm going to have to make a country smile

Back in the '80s a guy did that with an offshore oil platform. And we have the server farm island off Britain. At least there's precedent.
_________________________
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

Top
#145625 - 08/24/08 01:42 PM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: NeighborBill]
Grouch Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 395
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: billy.guttery
Then again, is some states it is illegal to have more than two weeks' worth of food...

What?!? Which states?

Top
#145742 - 08/25/08 12:22 AM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: Grouch]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
From my research (on states west of the Mississippi) all states have some kind of anti-hoarding laws on the books (usually only enforceable during a state of emergency). Two weeks' food was the magical number I kept running up against, probably the result of some federal study.

The only really weird one I remember (this has been a few years), was Hawaii, where a one week rule was enforceable in normal times (not in the actual legislation, but in committee notes attached):


128-28 Forfeitures. The forfeiture of any property unlawfully possessed, pursuant to paragraph (2) of section 128-8, may be adjudged upon conviction of the offender found to be unlawfully in possession of the same, where no person other than the offender is entitled to notice and hearing with respect to the forfeiture, or the forfeiture may be enforced by an appropriate civil proceeding brought in the name of the State. The district courts and circuit courts shall have concurrent jurisdiction of the civil proceedings. Any property forfeited as provided in this section may be ordered destroyed, or may be ordered delivered for public use to such agency as shall be designated by the governor or the governor's representative, or may be ordered sold, wholly or partially, for the account of the State. [L 1951, c 268, pt of 2; RL 1955, 359-25; HRS 128- 28; am imp L 1984, c 90, 1]"

Enjoy the paranoia, I know I have.

If your state or area is ever declared a "disaster" by the governer you are fully under the jurisdiction of the federal gubmint...and FEMA smile


_________________________
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

Top
#145750 - 08/25/08 01:01 AM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: NeighborBill]
Grouch Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 395
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: billy.guttery
If your state or area is ever declared a "disaster" by the governer you are fully under the jurisdiction of the federal gubmint...and FEMA smile

I won't say what I'm thinking because I don't want black helicopters to swoop down on me. eek

Top
#145758 - 08/25/08 01:26 AM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: Grouch]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
It's not the black helicopters you have to worry about....

....just the green ones.
_________________________
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

Top
#145759 - 08/25/08 01:33 AM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: NeighborBill]
Grouch Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 395
Loc: Ohio
Well, I witnessed up close how FEMA operates (post-Katrina) so I'm pretty confident that I can pull the wool over their eyes when it comes to my stash.

Top
#146753 - 08/31/08 01:37 AM Re: Speaking of precious metals... [Re: Grouch]
RobertRogers Offline
Survivor
Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 198
Yep it is true. Come disaster the government can take your preparedness stocks and issue them to the public. Of course, they are likely to take care of their own family needs from your stash first.

Welcome to America, home of the free.
_________________________
FireSteel.com

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  MartinFocazio, Tyber 
August
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Who's Online
2 registered (Famdoc, Herman30), 97 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
NicholasMarshall, Yadav, BenFoakes, scandigrinder7, Toboutdoors66
5365 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Prep with pets?
by roberttheiii
03:55 PM
Flash Floods
by hikermor
02:07 AM
Predicted food shortages
by Bingley
08/13/22 03:19 AM
We're Moving Back to Texas
by Jeanette_Isabelle
08/11/22 10:14 PM
What do you use for VoIP backup power?
by chaosmagnet
08/11/22 02:28 PM
Bleach
by Acropolis50
08/09/22 05:22 AM
Checking Gear
by Phaedrus
08/04/22 09:21 AM
Customizing Your Medical Kit
by Jeanette_Isabelle
08/02/22 07:16 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.