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#143034 - 08/06/08 04:31 PM Re: Brunton compasses [Re: Jeff_M]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: Jeff_McCann
Originally Posted By: Hikin_Jim
I found this comment on the Backpacking light forum about the Dakar to be instructive:
Quote:
...the Dakar (like the Alpin Pro) does not have lines on the bottom of the capsule to line up with meridians on the map. You have to eyeball north on the compass with the meridians on the map in order to get a bearing from the map. To me, that negates the 1 deg. accuracy that you supposedly get from this compass

Still, the Dakar is intruiging...


No orienting lines on the capsule? Well, that's a deal breaker for me. To bad, since the other features make it so appealing. Back to the ol' Ranger . .

Thanks for the good intel.


On second thought, I'm pretty sure I could fix that little oversight with a straight edge, and X-acto knife and a bit of paint. I may get one anyway,

Jeff

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#143038 - 08/06/08 05:00 PM Re: Brunton compasses [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
Originally Posted By: Hikin_Jim
This compass would probably OK just for map use, but if you're really interested in cross country (off trail) navigation, orienteering, or anything that requires precise readings, this compass isn't going to get you there. With this compass, there is nothing to sight with. You have to look up at the sighting object, look down to the compass, back up to the object, and then back at the compass. No offense intended, but those 1/2 degree markings are a bit of a joke on a compass of this design.

http://www.thecompassstore.com/54lu.html...


Not really. The 54LU allows you to see the target, compass and azimuth all at once.



It is a favorite of the guy who runs MapTools. However, it does not have a declination adjustment. Since it uses a card and not a needle it would be more affected by a bubble.

I don't own one, I just remember him talking about it.

I understand the idea of being able to read the bearing via the optically enhanced rim of the compass. But that's not the issue. You have no precise aiming point on the compass. How do you aim it? You basically eyeball the arrow on the baseplate, looking back and forth between the baseplate arrow and the sighting object. Yes, you can read the bearing through the rim, but it's not a very precise bearing.

With a compass that has a sighting device (sighting wire, sighting aperture, sighting "V," etc.), you get a more precise aiming device and therefore a more precise bearing. Hence this general class of compasses are referred to as sighting compasses.

I'm not saying the 54LU is a bad compass, but if I need to take bearings, it wouldn't be my first choice. Add in the fact that there is no declination adjustment and the 54LU is a "no go."
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#143043 - 08/06/08 05:44 PM Re: Brunton compasses [Re: Hikin_Jim]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Is it just me, or is the price of feature-rich compasses going up (Brunton, specifically)? I appreciate a functional and precise instrument, but I have a hard time digesting some of the prices I'm seeing. The Brunton price seems higher than what I remember. I would have a hard time paying much more than the Silva Ranger, and even that is pushing it a little.

These two, while greatly different in implementation and ruggedness, are functionally similar (the edge in functionality may go to the K&R, but the GI would be all over the K&R in the ruggedness department):

K&R Dakar: $26.50
GI Lensatic (non-tritium): $49

These three are near clones of each other IMHO:

Suunto MC-2D: $49
Silva Ranger 515: $55
Brunton 15TDCL: $69


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#143046 - 08/06/08 06:06 PM Re: Brunton compasses [Re: haertig]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
The Brunton 15TDCL basically is a Silva Ranger. Silva bought Brunton some time ago. Some items are marketed under the Silva brand (although not necessarily in Sweden) and others under the Brunton brand (although not necessarily in the USA). There may be some divergence, but both are bascially Silva Rangers. The 15TDCL has a good reputation. My Silva Ranger purchased in the 70's is still going strong.

The K&R is a real winner on price.

A GI lensatic compass would be great ... if only it had a declination adjustment. I wonder why the army (etc.) doesn't have a declination adjustment?
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#143049 - 08/06/08 06:33 PM Re: Brunton compasses [Re: Hikin_Jim]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Originally Posted By: Hikin_Jim
A GI lensatic compass would be great ... if only it had a declination adjustment. I wonder why the army (etc.) doesn't have a declination adjustment?

I would venture that even grunts are capable of adding and subtracting. smirk

Just kidding, but how would you implement declination adjustment in a rotating card compass used in the sighting mode? With the Dakar it looks like you rotate the lubber line on the face plate, but this would introduce a parallax error when not looking down from directly above.

One more argument against declination adjustment - if you make a conversion error while using a compass without adjustment, one bearing will be wrong. If you make a mistake setting the declination on your adjustable compass, all your bearings will be wrong.

In North to the Pole, the author writes how they travelled South instead of North for an entire day because he set the declination wrong.

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#143050 - 08/06/08 06:40 PM Re: Brunton compasses [Re: comms]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
OK, I went ahead and ordered the K&R Dakar compass. I'm going to try making orienting lines on the base of the capsule. I'll let y'all know how that works out, complete with pictures (if I can figure how - first attempt for me)

Jeff

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#143051 - 08/06/08 06:42 PM Re: Brunton compasses [Re: haertig]
Schwert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 905
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Originally Posted By: haertig


These three are near clones of each other IMHO:

Suunto MC-2D: $49
Silva Ranger 515: $55
Brunton 15TDCL: $69



If the Suunto and Silva are purchased in the US...then both are made by Suunto in Finland. Silva, the brand name in the US is owned by Johnson Camping. They currently have Suunto in Finland make all the compasses they sell in the US.

Silva purchased anywhere else in the world is made by Silva Sweden.

The Brunton is a Silva Sweden product. This confusion is confusing.

Brunton also manufactures some of their line here in the US.


The K&R line looks interesting all around. The Dakar at $26 seems like a good one to try.


Edited by Schwert (08/06/08 06:42 PM)

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#143060 - 08/06/08 07:26 PM Re: Brunton compasses [Re: Schwert]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Schwert
Originally Posted By: haertig


These three are near clones of each other IMHO:

Suunto MC-2D: $49
Silva Ranger 515: $55
Brunton 15TDCL: $69



If the Suunto and Silva are purchased in the US...then both are made by Suunto in Finland. Silva, the brand name in the US is owned by Johnson Camping. They currently have Suunto in Finland make all the compasses they sell in the US.

Silva purchased anywhere else in the world is made by Silva Sweden.

The Brunton is a Silva Sweden product. This confusion is confusing.


Who's on first?
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#143062 - 08/06/08 07:33 PM Re: Brunton compasses [Re: Schwert]
Schwert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 905
Loc: Seattle, Washington


This closer look at the Dakar may reveal why it does not have any baseplate meridian lines.....

I think this looks like a compass card rather than a needle. The capsule may not turn to allow alignment with the grid.

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#143064 - 08/06/08 07:47 PM Re: Brunton compasses [Re: thseng]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: thseng
Originally Posted By: Hikin_Jim
A GI lensatic compass would be great ... if only it had a declination adjustment. I wonder why the army (etc.) doesn't have a declination adjustment?

I would venture that even grunts are capable of adding and subtracting. smirk

lol! Well, FYI, I'v studied Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry, and Calculus, and I still think adding and subtracting declination is a pain in the butt. grin

Originally Posted By: thseng
Just kidding, but how would you implement declination adjustment in a rotating card compass used in the sighting mode? With the Dakar it looks like you rotate the lubber line on the face plate, but this would introduce a parallax error when not looking down from directly above.

That's a very good point. Hmm. Not so easy; maybe that's why it hasn't been done. It would be interesting to hear a solid report on the Dakar in terms of it's accuracy inasmuch as it is a lensatic compass and has a declination adjustment. I hear what you're saying about the potential parallax error.

Originally Posted By: thseng
One more argument against declination adjustment - if you make a conversion error while using a compass without adjustment, one bearing will be wrong. If you make a mistake setting the declination on your adjustable compass, all your bearings will be wrong.

Excellent point. For what I do here in S. California, the whole area is basically 13' declination (easterly IIRC). I set the compass at home under no stress in ideal conditions with all the time in the world, and then I don't touch it again unless I travel out of state, but even for travel out of state, I set it at home before I leave. The chances of getting it wrong are pretty slim. Also, one could check the azimuth on the map from a known point to a known point (say at a trailhead to an obvious point) and compare the map azimuth with the compass azimuth. If they don't jibe with one another, it's time to carefully check your procedures and settings. I also usually carry a non adjustable back up compass. One can look at the two, compare them with the declination diagram on one's topo map and pretty quickly determine whether the compass is set correctly.

Originally Posted By: thseng
In North to the Pole, the author writes how they travelled South instead of North for an entire day because he set the declination wrong.

Yeah, if you're in relatively featureless terrain in the Far North (where the declination is going to shift frequently and dramatically), a declination adjusted compass might not be your best bet. One trick would be to have each member of your party independently set the declination on their idividual compasses and compare the results. If any discrepencies, STOP and think.

I don't have any plans to travel that close to the North Pole anytime soon, so I think I'll stick with an adjustable compass for now. grin
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