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#141925 - 07/28/08 10:31 PM Re: Vehicle Bugout -Traffic Lights - MIRT? [Re: Fitzoid]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4594
Loc: SOCAL
Agree -- fortunately, as martinfocazio mentioned, "the MIRT devices are now serialized" so the issue is moot. Then again, Am_Fear_Liath_Mor is a Brit IIRC and they may still be using an uncoded/unserialized system.

Still, it's just wrong. I would hope that folks who frequent this site would be better prepared and leave early enough that an MIRT would be unnecessary.

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#141947 - 07/28/08 11:36 PM Re: Vehicle Bugout -Traffic Lights - MIRT? [Re: Russ]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
Thread Hijack Alert!!!






Not that this has anything to do with bugging out of New York City. Itís just an interesting story on how one guy dealt with a job change and the high priceed realestate in NYC.










A Rent-Free Place, if You Can Find a Spot to Park

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/MPCHSCi9ygh...m%20Archive.htm


By COREY KILGANNON
Published: May 8, 2004, Saturday
Let other people moan and groan about sky-high rents and real estate in New York City. Jimmy Hines, 50, has found a solution: living rent-free in an R.V.
''It's my apartment on wheels,'' he said, leaning back this week in his faded 27-foot Gulfstream Sun Sport camper that was sitting on a fairly busy Queens street, wedged next to the curb in a line of parked cars.
Last fall, Mr. Hines gave notice on the Queens apartment he was renting and bought a camper with his savings. It is his sixth month living curbside in the camper, and he swears he will never have a landlord again.
Mr. Hines is no skylarking eccentric looking to prove a point about human self-sufficiency. He is rather a man pushed to an extreme situation by extreme circumstances: the New York City housing market.
He parked the rig on a busy stretch of Main Street south of the Long Island Expressway, on the edge of a commercial strip in an Orthodox section of Kew Gardens Hills, where streets are lined with kosher food shops and boxy brick houses.
Stepping out his front door to the sidewalk, he faces a cemetery. To the right is a bus stop and to the left a gas station. In accordance with city parking regulations, he moves the vehicle at 7 a.m. on Mondays for one half-hour, for street cleaning.
Mr. Hines said he was paying $900 a month for an apartment on Kissena Boulevard. He had recently lost his job as a vending machine repairman and was receiving a $150 weekly unemployment check.
''I started really thinking about what they're getting for an apartment in the city these days and I figured: 'Why should I keep paying rent? It's crazy,' '' he said.
So Mr. Hines took most of his savings and bought the 1987 Sun Sport for $6,000. He began living in camper in December. Rather than ramble to less expensive areas, Mr. Hines wanted to stay in Queens, where he was born and raised and still near his friends.
''It was the wisest thing to do, considering my conditions,'' he said, stretching out in the camper on a smallish bed that barely accommodates his 6-foot frame.
The place rivals some Manhattan studio apartments. Mr. Hines, who is single, keeps the place like a typical bachelor pad. There are dishes in the sink, overflowing ashtrays and a picture of his first hot rod. Traffic whooshes by, several feet from his window. He keeps his shades down for privacy.
''Don't mind the place, it's a bit of a mess,'' he said, showing a visitor around on Thursday. The inside of the R.V. has shag carpet, simulated wood paneling and floral-patterned wallpaper. There is a comfortable couch, and some swivel seats next to a smallish table. In the rear, past the bathroom, refrigerator and closets, is a small bedroom with twin beds.
His kitchen console includes a four-range stove, oven and refrigerator, all powered by propane. A gas-powered generator provides electricity and heat. Mr. Hines also keeps perishables in a plastic cooler, replenished daily with store-bought ice.
His portable toilet deposits the waste in plastic bags, which he puts in street trash cans. For water, he fills up large jugs at a gas station. Without a water hookup, he takes showers at a friend's or at the gym at Queens College. His mail is sent to a friend's house.
After paying $500 a year for auto insurance, camper living is incredibly inexpensive, Mr. Hines said. Except for extreme hot or cold weather, he pays about $10 a week for propane, for which he must drive the camper to Nassau County for refills. He pays $25 a week in gasoline for the generator.
He spends $7 a day on cigarettes, $4 on coffee and the rest on food.
''I make a mean chicken cordon bleu in that oven,'' he said. ''I don't even have an excuse to eat out.''
He has a 9-inch color television with a built-in DVD player for movie rentals. He is set to buy a satellite dish for more channels.
''It's got everything my apartment had, except space,'' he said. ''But who has a lot of space in New York?''
He holds regular poker games with his friends and has even taken a date back to the camper.
''The guys like coming here to get away from their old ladies,'' he said, adding that they debate what is crazier: living as an urban camper, or a lifetime of indentured servitude to a mortgage?
''A lot of my friends have kids and bills and they're all bald,'' Mr. Hines said. ''Me, I'm not living large, but life is still good. I'm living on my own terms. I have an apartment on wheels. I can pick up and go whenever and wherever I want.''
Mr. Hines grew up in Flushing. His camper is parked near John Bowne High School, which he attended. Mr. Hines calls himself ''a product of the 60's'' and wears his hair in a ponytail, his head wrapped in an American flag bandanna.
The high cost of housing has forced people in Manhattan to go home to the Midwest and other locales, and some with fewer resources go homeless. But for a man from Queens with meager means and a few friends, living in camper just made sense.
There is a stream of people on the sidewalk who pass his camper and another, larger R.V. that Mr. Hines said was owned and parked nearby by a local homeowner. But few take notice, even when Mr. Hines is standing in his doorway sipping his coffee.
No one has tried to intrude on his domain, he said. A police officer did drop by a week ago, he said, to say that there had been a complaint about the noise from the generator, but Mr. Hines said he was not bothered.
''I think he just wanted to check me out,'' said Mr. Hines, who says his living situation is totally legal.
Is it? A half-dozen city agencies could not answer the question. A spokeswoman for the Department of Buildings said it had no jurisdiction. (''It's not hooked up to any utilities, so it doesn't seem like a dwelling.'')
But Keith Kalb, a spokesman for the city's Department of Transportation, said that traffic rules prohibit keeping boat trailers, mobile homes and mobile medical diagnostic vehicles on city streets for more than 24 hours at a time, although the regulations are usually enforced only in response to complaints.
Several merchants in the area said Mr. Hines had done very little to attract attention in the past five months, so they gave little thought to why the camper was even there.
David Fisher, 79, a retired auditor who lives nearby, walked by the camper on Thursday. He did a double-take at Mr. Hines in the doorway.
''I see him here all the time, and I wondered if it's legal to live in that thing,'' Mr. Fisher said. ''It takes up parking space and is a bit of an eyesore, but if the man needs it, I guess it's necessary.''
He added: ''It's a unique solution. I wish him luck.''
Published: 05 - 08 - 2004 , Late Edition - Final , Section A , Column 3 , Page 1



Edited by BobS (07/28/08 11:36 PM)
_________________________



You can run, but you'll only die tired.


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#141973 - 07/29/08 01:04 AM Re: Vehicle Bugout -Traffic Lights - MIRT? [Re: Russ]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
Hi Russ,

Quote:
Then again, Am_Fear_Liath_Mor is a Brit IIRC and they may still be using an uncoded/unserialized system.


Perhaps I should have added that I would not use such a device because firstly there are no traffic lights on the bugout route where I live and secondly if there were any, I know that it would cause problems on other parts of the road transport network (especially for the emergency services).

Quote:
why do you think your life is more valuable than everyone else's


Some lives are deemed to be more important than others. This is a view which is especially prevalent by those who create and enforce the rules. This is a sad but true fact of life. You won't see the President of the United States of America, the British Prime Minister or the Queen of England bugging out on a bicycle. (well not in any of the Hollywood disaster movies I've ever seen). Would you pose the same question to these folks if you are stuck in a traffic jam in an emergency and the motorcade rolls by?

BTW I whole heartedly agree with the sentiment that everyones life should be regarded equally. The reality I'm afraid is somewhat different, as indicated by the New York lawyer story and by the situation during Katrina debacle.

It can sometimes be a fine line preserving our own necks without impacting on the ability for others to survive. Sometimes we can even help others. But when push comes to shove it best not to be in a middle of the crowd. New York Lawyers aren't dumb. Thats why they get paid so much for what they do. frown

Perhaps the phrase 'Better Judged by Twelve Than Carried by Six' summed up their mindset. The reality at the end of the day was that they weren't even put in the dock.

Altruism



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#141983 - 07/29/08 02:04 AM Re: Vehicle Bugout -Traffic Lights - MIRT? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Bucks County PA
I think that everyone needs to pause a moment and think - it's just a scenario he's running through in his head.

You think about not only yourself first, but your family first - more than yourself even.

Here. I'll lighten it up a bit with a true story about how an easygoing and gentle Dad can be turned into a predator in an instant.

My son was about 3 years old, and we were at some carnival. There was a moon bounce and he was in there with "the big boys" (7 and 8 year olds).

Well, he was bouncing along and got bopped on the head hard by some kid who collided with him as he fell. The big boys didn't notice the crying 3 year old, but I did. I started to go into the bounce to get my son and the 18 year old guy at the door blocked me and said, "You can't go in there!" and all I said was, "Why don't you try to stop me?"

At that moment, if that kid had so much as thought about preventing me from getting to my son, I know, just by the feeling I still remember from that day 5 years ago, that I was ready, willing and more than able to physically destroy that punk, and I would have done it without so much as a thought.

Fortunately, I was able to - momentarily - give fair warning, and the kid instantly stood down.

I remember that feeling vividly and I think about it from time to time if I worry about my family and their safety. I think that the other Dads out there - guys like me who don't get violent, who don't have a history of fights or anything like that - can turn into fierce creatures in an instant.

So, to the point of the MIRT idea, which I think we can all agree is a Bad Idea, if you take it as a view towards the "do what it takes to protect my family" perspective, it's a plausible line of reasoning.

It's the ability to go a little further, to go beyond the initial reaction to the situation and to get to the next step that defines rationality and reason.

In my case, hitting the punk the instant he stepped between me and my kid might have been expedient, but it took just as long to warn him and have me pass than it would have to bloody his face. The net effect was that I got to my son in the same amount of time.

So it is with your "bug out plans" - the expedient method may lead to subsequent challenges - where do you go in a car that can't go anywhere ? What if the Metro North train drivers refuse to drive? It's good to think up the possible first actions here in writing, to let them form, take flight and see where they go. Here we have a good discussion of an idea that didn't work out. That's good. Just because an idea is not a good solution does not mean it's a bad thing to talk about. Failure is an opportunity to learn - in fact, it's better to always make new mistakes, ideally before they harm anyone.


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#141987 - 07/29/08 02:32 AM Re: Vehicle Bugout -Traffic Lights - MIRT? [Re: MartinFocazio]
Fitzoid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 289
Loc: WI, MA, and NYC
Martin, I'll agree with you that thinking things through is a fine idea in plenty of situations, not just the dire ones. No shortage of things I wish I had considered a bit more carefully before making a decision. smile

But the initial posting in this thread leaves a lot to be desired. The link to the product website, discussing an obviously illegal modification to it, and the sheer arrogance of surviving at the cost of others are all bound to bring the Irish up of some people here. (Imagine if he posted to a link to a firearm that was easy to convert from semi to auto and talked about modifying it.)

This question could have been asked in a far more reasonable way that didn't provoke any reactions. It certainly doesn't read like a hypothetical scenario he's just running through his head; instead, it sounds like he's about to place an order.
_________________________
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"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." Henny Youngman

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#141998 - 07/29/08 03:58 AM Re: Vehicle Bugout -Traffic Lights - MIRT? [Re: Fitzoid]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Fitzoid- It's interesting you bring up survival of the fittest in the same sense of 'best armed'. Survival of the fittest sure goes along with nature, as well as survival of the best prepared being nearly identical. Lets not even get into your comment about valuing your life more than others... That again goes with NATURE and your natural instinct to survive. Your life and your families ARE more important to you than others. If you don't think like this then are you really prepared to survive? (This is a rhetorical question.)

Are you a little to sensitive to the way a question is asked? I don't know but I think you over analyzed this guys post and read into it a BIT much. Maybe I did that to your posts too but I think my points regarding your posts are on track.

-Todd
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Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#142001 - 07/29/08 04:13 AM Re: Vehicle Bugout -Traffic Lights - MIRT? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
The term gridlock comes to mind. Signal or no signal, traffic is going to be backed up forever, in all directions. But, should your gizmo actually help you get along, and others found out what you were doing, the term lynching, or roadside justice, will probably come into play...
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OBG

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#142008 - 07/29/08 04:53 AM Re: Vehicle Bugout -Traffic Lights - MIRT? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Good point OBG.

Recently a major intersection in my town was out. Flashing red, stop light. My 10 minute drive from 1 side of town to the other that takes 7 minutes took nearly 30.

If you had your gizmo it wouldn't matter because by the time you SEE the light it's <5minutes to get through.

The REAL problem is getting even near the light not going through it.


In reality if you are in town even a relatively small one (like mine) and a single goes out and it's a major hub single you are screwed. I could have walked or road a bike faster than we drove home.
_________________________
Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#142009 - 07/29/08 05:06 AM Re: Vehicle Bugout -Traffic Lights - MIRT? [Re: MartinFocazio]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
I'd hate for this forum to turn into a "do whatever it takes" kind of place. But while we're just running scenarios through our minds; spitballing if you will; my mind drifts to another topic of discussion. And while it's OK to just put in my two cents as if this were a place and I was the kind of person who thought in a "do whatever it takes" fashion:

Screw the national forests, habitats, wildlife, homes and human lives I put in jeopardy, I'm setting a signal fire as big as all Hell to get my sorry lost butt rescued.

Fortunately I wouldn't do something like that, nor act upon such thoughts if I had them...

However, I understand that by the forum rules, your recent comment on the subject and so forth, such musings aren't out of bounds and don't warrant deletions. My apologies for asking.


Edited by Nicodemus (07/29/08 05:08 AM)
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"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

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#142011 - 07/29/08 05:34 AM Re: Vehicle Bugout -Traffic Lights - MIRT? [Re: Nicodemus]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Originally Posted By: Nicodemus
I'd hate for this forum to turn into a "do whatever it takes" kind of place. But while we're just running scenarios through our minds; spitballing if you will; my mind drifts to another topic of discussion. And while it's OK to just put in my two cents as if this were a place and I was the kind of person who thought in a "do whatever it takes" fashion:

Screw the national forests, habitats, wildlife, homes and human lives I put in jeopardy, I'm setting a signal fire as big as all Hell to get my sorry lost butt rescued.

Fortunately I wouldn't do something like that, nor act upon such thoughts if I had them...

However, I understand that by the forum rules, your recent comment on the subject and so forth, such musings aren't out of bounds and don't warrant deletions. My apologies for asking.


If you are referring to my post in regards to discussing such thing on this forum I believe you too have taken things to far or read into them far more than what they are. I never said start talking about everything illegal, I just think it's odd that someone doesn't value their own life or families more than a stranger. (I don't think people should take this as not wanting to help a stranger or a friend, there is a difference.)

Comparing an electronic devise that changes a stop light and forces other traffic to STOP is not really a good comparison to setting thousands of acres on fire and potentially killing thousands of animals, burning down homes and killing people.

I also don't see what would be wrong with someone 'new' asking or stating "Well if I was lost I would just set a huge fire and they would find me." People here are kind enough and knowledgeable enough to educate this person.

Accidental illegal acts are a little different than planning, and creating an illegal devise and discussing it on an open forum.

Anyway, please don't take my opinion on the matter as an argument with you personally it's not. I am simply replying to your statement and stating my opinion.

I don't want anyone to have hard feelings about this smile
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