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#141882 - 07/28/08 06:41 PM Re: Diapers? [Re: Jeff_M]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
I am ethically prohibited from bartering anything I bring into a disaster area, but I do bring some small extras just in case somebody else needs it.

My thought on planning for bartering is: what about putting a little aside for your neighbors, or just to give to those in need? That concept probably wasn't foreign to our grandparents, who likely had far less to spare, even in good times, than we do.

As you stock up, consider setting some small portion of whatever you accumulate aside in a "charity box." Just a thought . . .

Jeff

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#141883 - 07/28/08 06:53 PM Re: Diapers? [Re: thatguyjeff]
Joy Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 67
If you really want to, I don't see why you can't stash some cloth diapers away for barter. And I would throw in a couple plastic pants (though the plastic might get brittle with time) to put over the cloth diapers too. Maybe some diaper pins. Most women these days probably don't know much about using cloth diapers, so even printing out some info to stash with the cloth diapers might be wise. These won't take up much space. Here is a page on diapers for emergencies: http://home.att.net/~ofuzzy1/diaper.htm You could make up a small box of diapering supplies to keep with your other emergency stuff. I can't seem to make the above link work. You will have to cut and paste.

One problem with using cloth during emergencies is washing them when there might not be much water. So for a short term emergency disposables would probably be best. Though you might want to rotate them if what Eugene says is true and they degrade after a while. We used cloth diapers, as disposable's weren't widely available when my girls were little. But I liked using cloth myself. Washing them was a pain even with lots of water.

It seems to me if you come across someone that might need diapers in an emergency or during hard times, then you could trade with them (or just give it to them) without letting the whole neighborhood know you have supplies to barter. You don't even have to let the person you are trading with know that you are bartering or know that you have other kinds of supplies. I think if I were doing this (bartering in hard times), I would deal with each person one on one and not use the word bartering. Hopefully that would prevent it getting out that you have stocked up on supplies. Something like that anyway!

Nitro-pak has a little book on bartering. http://www.nitro-pak.com/product_info.php?cPath=23_132&products_id=287

For women:
And women reading this can even get cloth menstrual pads and supplies for long term emergencies. In the past I have seen sewing patterns online so you can sew your own. Here is one brand you can buy (I have seen these for sale in some health food stores): http://www.gladrags.com/category/reusable-menstrual-pads Or you could buy one and use that as a pattern to make more.

Joy

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#141887 - 07/28/08 07:17 PM Re: Diapers? [Re: thatguyjeff]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2811
Loc: La-USA
I have found that Disposable Diapers, Wet Ones, baby powder, and Bed Chucks, are a good source for barter, providing you meet up with those who need them.

I think your barter items might very well be "confiscated for the greater good" if you are in a shelter situation and the folks running the shelter learn that you have them.

There are many items that you may not need but would be great to have as barter material. Unfortunately, the more that you have, the more space and money it requires, the more protection you are required to provide.

Good Luck on finding the optimal middle ground!
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#141894 - 07/28/08 08:00 PM Re: Diapers? [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Bucks County PA
In my experience, large-scale disasters have been for the most part the epitome of human kindness and cooperation. What we forget in the example of Hurricane Katrina is that while thousands had extraordinarily bad behavior, MILLIONS didn't. NYC Blackouts, Delaware River Flooding, California Wildfires, 9/11, the Great Depression.

Think about this kid when you think TEOTWAWKI and take a deep breath:

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2005/09/05/955/11308




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#141897 - 07/28/08 08:08 PM Re: Diapers? [Re: wildman800]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: wildman800
I think your barter items might very well be "confiscated for the greater good" if you are in a shelter situation and the folks running the shelter learn that you have them.


ARRRGH! PLEASE LET ME DISPEL THAT MYTH RIGHT NOW. Anything is possible, but I assure you that it is exceedingly unlikely that anyone who is running any sort of sanctioned shelter (American Red Cross; Salvation Army; Federal, State or Local Govít, etc.) is going to seize anyoneís private property. Where do these notions get their start?

Now, if you try to bring in, say, alcohol or firearms, though, you will likely be asked to leave them in your car or otherwise remove them from the shelter, but you are then welcome to return. On the other hand, if you are the least bit discreet, Iíve never seen anyone get searched in a shelter, either.

First, the people running the shelter donít need to take your stuff. There are logistics already in place from commercial and government channels. Second, there is no way to account for and utilize your stuff without seriously eroding efficiency. Itís just too complex to inventory, store and transport, and what if its deficient? poisoned? It ain't worth the time, hassle and ill-will. Third, they respect your rights and the Rule of Law is not suspended, nor is the Constitution revoked in times of emergency, and theyíd really rather not get their asses sued off afterwards.

Let me explain how disaster logistics really work. We try to bring whatever we need in the short run with us, because we donít know what will be available on-site. There are then two major logistics trains called into operation.

First is the Governmental/Military supply system. Many things are pre-positioned in caches and designated for disaster relief. Others are taken from supplies like war stocks or borrowed from government entities outside the disaster area according to pre-existing or contemporaneous interstate and other agreements.

Second is the commercial supply system. Just like when you run short of something, the major governmental and non-governmental entities just run down to Wal-Mart with their credit cards and get what they need. The same system that keeps the shelves of every local chain supermarket in America stocked daily can truck in tons and tons of supplies to a disaster area daily. In fact, most national chains plan for such calls in advance. Minor local needs are also sometimes handled by on site donations, and purchasing from local merchants. Another interesting method I have used is simply contacting the corporate or local operators of a heavily damaged medical facility or retail store, explaining who we are, and asking permission to collect what we need from inventory that is sure to be a total insurance write-off anyway.

Yeah, I know about the rogue cops (and, I suspect, some Blackwater Cowboys) seizing guns in NOLA. But that was aberrant criminal behavior, contrary to law, and pretty universally condemned thereafter. But criminal activity under color of authority is a problem during times of disaster just like it is any other time.

Jeff

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#141899 - 07/28/08 08:14 PM Re: Diapers? [Re: wildman800]
Rodion Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 285
Loc: Israel
Originally Posted By: wildman800
I think your barter items might very well be "confiscated for the greater good" if you are in a shelter situation and the folks running the shelter learn that you have them.


I think anything and everything on you may be "confiscated for the greater good" if an official lays their eyes on it. Some folks advise against seeking dedicated "shelters" for this very reason.
_________________________
Whenever you rest, someone, somewhere is training to kick your ass.

www.kravmagafederation.com

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#141901 - 07/28/08 08:30 PM Re: Diapers? [Re: MartinFocazio]
big_al Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 586
Loc: 20mi east of San Diego
I was stationed at the air port in Baton Rouse, And let me assure you that the day after Katrina blew thru there was thousands of pounds of diapers, formula and baby supply's that came in on Private aircraft for the next two weeks and were still coming in when I returned to Calif.

May I also add the problem was getting them to the mothers that needed them.


Edited by big_al (07/28/08 08:33 PM)
_________________________
Some people try to turn back their odometers.
Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way
I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved

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#141904 - 07/28/08 08:48 PM Re: Diapers? [Re: Rodion]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: Rodion
I think anything and everything on you may be "confiscated for the greater good" if an official lays their eyes on it. Some folks advise against seeking dedicated "shelters" for this very reason.


May I ask, specifically, why you think that? Is it based on some related personal experience? Is it an extrapolation from your view of government behavior generally? Something you read or saw in the media? An abundance of caution or a distaste of others wielding their power like dogs off their leash during the emergency? No disrespect intended. I sincerely would like to know how folks arrive at this not uncommon opinion.

Jeff

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#141908 - 07/28/08 09:08 PM Re: Diapers? [Re: Jeff_M]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


I believe it comes from Executive Order #12919 which is an amalgum of a bunch of other presidential EOs going quite a ways back.

http://www.uhuh.com/laws/eo12919.html

This is the same controversial EO that gives FEMA nearly absolute control over the United States if another 9/11 happens.

This EO allows the government to confiscate what ever it wants (not really but close) in the interest of appropriately allocating national resources in the case of an emergency. That includes water, food, your car, and YOU!

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#141909 - 07/28/08 09:13 PM Re: Diapers? [Re: Jeff_M]
Rodion Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 285
Loc: Israel
Originally Posted By: Jeff_McCann
Originally Posted By: Rodion
I think anything and everything on you may be "confiscated for the greater good" if an official lays their eyes on it. Some folks advise against seeking dedicated "shelters" for this very reason.


May I ask, specifically, why you think that? Is it based on some related personal experience? Is it an extrapolation from your view of government behavior generally? Something you read or saw in the media? An abundance of caution or a distaste of others wielding their power like dogs off their leash during the emergency? No disrespect intended. I sincerely would like to know how folks arrive at this not uncommon opinion.

Jeff


No offense taken.

Our government stinks. It stinks hard. I will not go into details (as that delves into fairly dangerous information that, although freely available to all who look, will not be passed on by yours truly), let's just say when push comes to shove, I do not expect to be saved by our marvelous disaster relief system.

In the wake of a serious disaster, I fully expect officials on the ground to compensate shortages by taking resources from wherever they are found. Naturally, SAR won't be looting ruined homes, but the shelter supplies redistribution described above seems very real to me, especially knowing the genuinely personal attitude adopted here.

Your description of the US disaster relief system seems unrealistic in the local climate. It also fails to address the possibility to a temporary collapse in said system, when the local authorities are reduced to basically the guys with guns and there are no supply trucks on the horizon.
_________________________
Whenever you rest, someone, somewhere is training to kick your ass.

www.kravmagafederation.com

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