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#140728 - 07/22/08 05:19 AM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: Russ]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England

Stopping Power: A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition
Evan P. Marshall & Edwin J. Sanow
If you want to know how handgun ammunition will work against human targets in the future, you must look at how similar ammo has worked against human targets in the past. This is exactly what Evan P. Marshall and Edwin J. Sanow did with the release of their seminal books Handgun Stopping Power in 1992 and Street Stoppers in 1996. Now, they continue their groundbreaking work in Stopping Power: A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition. Many useful facts can be gathered at autopsy tables and in laboratory experiments, but they cannot account for the dynamics of an actual gunfight or the varied reactions of criminals who get struck by bullets. Like its best-selling predecessors, Stopping Power takes these factors into consideration and bases its conclusions on real-world facts from real-world armed encounters. It provides the latest street results of actual police and civilian shootings in all of the major handgun calibers, from .22 LR through .45 ACP, plus more than 30 chapters of vital interest to all gun owners, including: the results of brand-new ammunition test protocol of the U.S. Border Patrol, which is involved in more gunfights than any other federal law enforcement agency the emergence of the hot new police caliber, the .357 SIG, as a potent man stopper, as well as the continued success of the .40 S&W on the streets the story behind the development of the latest exotic ammunition, including the .400 Cor-Bon, Triton .40 Super, and 5.7 x 28mm street results for major rifle and shotgun loads, short-barrel handgun ballistics, and an enlightening chapter predicting the effectiveness of black powder firearms The only thing worse than being involved in a gunfight is losing one. The information contained in this book will help you choose the right bullets for your gun so you don't lose.

The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end – Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#140732 - 07/22/08 06:02 AM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: TheSock]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
All this argument about pistol rounds and stopping power... how many people have you seen keep coming at you with a 12ga to the chest? Anyone, I'm curious?
_________________________
Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#140739 - 07/22/08 11:23 AM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: TheSock]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4901
Loc: SOCAL
Sock,
Marshall & Sanow have been thoroughly discredited. Their "work" has been academically questioned and they won't release the raw data to back up the claims made in the book. IOW, the book is a work of fiction being marketed as "street results". Don't go there. . .

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#140741 - 07/22/08 12:16 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: Russ]
BillLiptak Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 259
I know I'm comming in late here......
First I would get some hands on training and shooting time. Learn how to handle, safely, firearms in general. How to reload them, aim them etc....
Armed with that knowledge go and pick one out. Try them on for fit in hand, ease of ergonomics etc.... You may choose either a revolver or automatic. Whatever floats your boat, bearing in mind the semi-auto pistol has a different manual of arms than a revolver and requires a little more to get/keep them going. Not much, but a little.
You now have some training (get as much as you can) and a firearm. Get something to secure it from prying fingers, be they child or adult theif.
Next get a good cleaning kit for your firearm. Reason why so many criminals guns fail to fire is that they are either a junk gun, prone to failure or dirty to the point of failure. You wash your hand after using the bathroom? "Wash" your guns after going to the range.
So, now you have training, a firearm, means to keep firearm safe from unwanted acess and the means to keep it up and running. Next I'll discuss accessories.......

-Bill Liptak

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#140745 - 07/22/08 12:38 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: BillLiptak]
BillLiptak Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 259
Accessories......
If you are planning on concealed carry, assuming you can get the licence, a good belt is a must. I use a wilderness belt. Someone here has mentioned "thebeltman" for a leather one and I admit I've been looking there too.... So if ya need/want a good leather belt I'd go there. Buy a good holster. Yes, even the 25 dollar fobus qualifies as good. Damn good. I own several for differnt pistols I own. I perfer Galco for inside the waistband carry. Bear in mind you will probably need to loose a few pounds or buy pants one size up for this option. Unless you like and own pants that are on the baggy side. Loose fitting tie-died t-shirts help break up the pattern of a pistol underneath, as do "Hawaaiian" type shirts. In todays society with all the cell phones and junk people throw on their belts concealing a lump is easier than it used to be.
If you have an automatic pistol that has an accessory rail under it you may want a light (or laser/light combo) for it. Slide on the light before you go to bed, now you don't have to fumble for/with a pistol AND a light, they are already there. Go for the light before the laser, has more benefits.
Most autopistols come with 2 mags, get a third. If you went for a revolver get a speedloader (or2) and practice with them. Remember to use dummy rounds for this, you don't want an accidental discharge.
And at this point I "think" you will be pretty much set.
As far as caliber debates I'll keep it simple. Look what police and military forces use. It will insure a pleantiful "stock" of said calibers and chances are they use it cause it works. When the gun owner does his part, as in shot placement and a good powder charge under a reliable hollowpoint bullet design.
Remember as OBG said, you shoot to stop a threat, not kill. Yea, sad political b.s. But its the game you play. Remember, anything short of a CNS shot may not put the threat down immediately. Keep shooting until the threat stops. A man can go 8 to 10 seconds, even after a direct heart hit. It may take time and more rounds, keep shooting until the threat is gone

-Bill Liptak

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#140753 - 07/22/08 01:18 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: Russ]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
That is exactly what they did. When they first came out they felt almost like a .357 mag, and bad guys dropped like stones. Then it was obvious that recoil starting going down, and bad guys didn't. But lots of people like fast light bullets...
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OBG

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#140756 - 07/22/08 01:24 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: dweste]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: dweste
After stating and participating in the "Dog Defense" thread, I have come to the conclusion I should get a handgun "and all that goes with it." This thread is to discuss what should go along with acquiring a handgun.

I have owned rifles and shotguns, but never a handgun. I have fired a few handguns, but none recently. I was never interested in handguns enough to pay them much attention. So this is new business for me.

My favorite brother is in law enforcement and I will lean on his experience pretty heavily. I a going to pay attention to what you guys recommend, too.

My expectation is some study of handguns, and enlisting my brother's advice through purchase and beyond. I hope to try several calibers of handguns at the shooting range.

After that I hope to have are extremely narrow range of candidates.

I understand there is a tiny possibility I can get some combat arms / close quarter’s combat training through my brother.

Gun, cleaning supplies, ammunition, trigger lock, and ?


The "what do you need" part of the question is pretty simple. If you have other guns you should already have cleaning supplies, eye/ear protection, secure storage, etc.

As for which gun and caliber. Stick with a major manufacturer in a common self defense chambering and you should be fine. Most folks I know will tell you > or = 9mm/.38 Spl +P. This is the part of the issue that always goes off the rails and turns into a Ford vs Chevy; Ginger vs Mary Ann discussion.

If you're in an area where political correctness counts it might be prudent to stick to something very similar to whatever the local police carry.

If there is ANY way you can do it, scrape together the time and funds for a good pistol class.


_________________________
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

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#140784 - 07/22/08 03:10 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: Russ]
CityBoyGoneCountry Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 369
Originally Posted By: Russ
Even if it does stop him, "How long did it take him to stop?" It might not stop an attacker before he killed the homeowner.

A gut shot is far from a CNS hit and it won't drop the bad guy's blood pressure like clipping the critical upper chest pipes and organs.

IANAD either.


Have you ever been punched really hard in the stomach? I have, and it can be temporarily incapacitating. I've seen tough guys buckle over after getting a solid punch in the gut. Now imagine a .44 bullet exploding your stomach.

Yeah, you're goin down.

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#140803 - 07/22/08 04:04 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: CityBoyGoneCountry]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Originally Posted By: CityBoyGoneCountry
Originally Posted By: Russ
Even if it does stop him, "How long did it take him to stop?" It might not stop an attacker before he killed the homeowner.

A gut shot is far from a CNS hit and it won't drop the bad guy's blood pressure like clipping the critical upper chest pipes and organs.

IANAD either.


Have you ever been punched really hard in the stomach? I have, and it can be temporarily incapacitating. I've seen tough guys buckle over after getting a solid punch in the gut. Now imagine a .44 bullet exploding your stomach.

Yeah, you're goin down.


When did .44 start EXPLODING in your stomach... ? Are you using special ammo?

From what I've seen a .44 will make a clean hole through your entire body. Not exactly the same as exploding inside of you.

Or did I miss something?
_________________________
Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#140810 - 07/22/08 04:35 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: Todd W]
CityBoyGoneCountry Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 369
Originally Posted By: ToddW
When did .44 start EXPLODING in your stomach... ? Are you using special ammo?

From what I've seen a .44 will make a clean hole through your entire body. Not exactly the same as exploding inside of you.

Or did I miss something?


Mass + energy + soft target = massive damage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txvbUAGefas

I wouldn't be aiming for the stomach. I would be aiming for center mass. A hit anywhere is going to hurt like a mother******.

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