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#140534 - 07/21/08 01:36 AM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: nursemike]
red Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 175
Originally Posted By: nursemike
Attack cats qualify, too but you gotta have signs cuz they don't bark.


LOL That's some funny stuff right there!!!!

Waiting for the Blast comeback...
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When the SHTF, no one comes out of it smelling pretty.

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#140537 - 07/21/08 01:40 AM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: red]
Stretch Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 707
Loc: Alamogordo, NM
However, it was said above that using deadly force on a burglar should be only when you are in fear of your life. In my state, that is most certainly not the case.

I stand corrected again, if you were referring to my post. I should not have inferred that deadly force should "never" be used to protect property... I erred on the side of reason as opposed to my natural thought process which is: "You're not even getting in the door, if I have a say about it".

Good for your State and the laws it's enacted. The protection of property is important and, even if not immediately life-threatening, can quickly turn so as soon as an owner asserts his right to the property being taken. This, I think, is why many States do allow deadly force to be used to protect property. I am of generally the same opinion.

The probelm with burglary is the inherent danger. As Russ said, the burglary KNOWS who he is and what he's doing. That's a deadly situation waiting to happen. So.... while I don;t think deadly force should be used in every situation where there is an unwanted person in the home (nor do I think you do either), more often that not, deadly force probably should be used. Each is its own case, of course.


Edited by Stretch (07/21/08 01:42 AM)
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#140541 - 07/21/08 02:17 AM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: nursemike]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3558
Loc: Spring, Texas
Quote:
Attack cats qualify, too but you gotta have signs cuz they don't bark.


Attack cats leave their own signs. If you are lucky it's just squirrel heads and mice feet piled by the doors.

Psycho attack cats leave human blood sprayed across the walls, ceiling, and windows.

The trick has always been how to carry him concealed. No way I'm putting him in my pants...

-Blast
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#140542 - 07/21/08 02:28 AM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: nursemike]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4592
Loc: SOCAL
Family dogs are unreliable. Dogs trained for the job are expen$ive, require ongoing training and a knowledgeable handler.

Image courtesy of Oleg Volk, THR

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#140555 - 07/21/08 06:37 AM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: Russ]
BrianB Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 99
I'll toss in my .02...


First, get training, and not from your brother. I'm not saying your brother isn't knowledgeable -- I have no way to know that -- but relatives are often not the best people to train us. Further, there is a lot that you can learn from a good training facility that you can't replicate on a normal firing range for safety reasons. Make sure that the FIRST training you get covers all of the legal issues pertinent to your state.

Second, the most important factor to me in choosing a handgun, especially for a new shooter, is fit. The better your chosen weapon fits your hand, the more naturally it will point* and the more accurate you will be with it. After you learn to properly grip a handgun, try a LOT of different guns with that proper grip. Try to rent a selection of those that feel best to you, and shoot them.

Third, well there is no third. But I'll toss an observation out here: There was study done on the un-nerving effect of racking a shotgun on criminals. Turns out, it doesn't really scare them. It does, however, give your position away. Just food for thought.

------------------

*EDIT: That isn't to say pointing is the only benefit, though. A good fit also means you can manipulate the trigger properly, that the gun behaves better in recoil, that you can reach all the controls on it better, etc.


Edited by BrianB (07/21/08 06:40 AM)
Edit Reason: foot note

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#140560 - 07/21/08 08:07 AM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: BrianB]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
Stretch wrote:
<A handgun for self-defense is meant to kill.

< For years (24 now) I've been taught the purpose is to "stop the threat". As a firearms and use of force instructor, that is the wording I must use when teaching. It's politically correct BS, of course, >

"So you never had any intention of wounding this poor widows husband? You only intended to kill! You weren't trying to stop the threat as you claim! You think anything but killing is politically correct BS! Y"

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#140562 - 07/21/08 08:13 AM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: TheSock]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
Sorry pressed submit too early.
Am I taking Stretch's comments out of context? Am I distorting them?
Of course I am. When a compensation lawyer is after your house that is exactly what he is going to do.
I might add the most dangerous things on this website are some of the signatures (and mine is the worst).
"So you think 'people who think you are dumb are going to just be more surprised when you kill them' do you? Now you expect us to believe you don't see yourself as a killer?" Your own words condemn you.
Read the Ayoob article 'Avoiding legal traps' i posted a link to earlier. It's scary.
The Sock
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The world is in haste and nears its end Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#140566 - 07/21/08 11:16 AM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: Russ]
pforeman Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 86
Loc: Iowa
The FTO/instructor in me is kicking in again. There is a lot of very good advice and information in this thread - think long and hard about all of it. Get to a library and/or borrow - buy some books too. Ayoob is excellent and has several good books out. Get some stuff by Applegate and read up on stuff by Col. Dave Grossman too.

The handgun is one part and the "all that goes with it" is another. Getting, using and having one is about 10 - 20% physical and equipment the rest is 80-90% mental. If you don't have the "correct" head set it can all be for nothing or will make a bad situation worse. That's why any basic firearms training spends most of the time in the classroom and only a small part on the actual range firing. Be sure you really want to do this and are willing to deal with the "all" included with it then go get the best stuff and training you can find. Best of luck.

Paul -

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#140570 - 07/21/08 12:30 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: pforeman]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 844
Loc: Colorado
Handgun ownership is (or should be) a mindset as well as a toolset.

Massad Ayoob reading to be prepared for the court fight after the gun fight. Very sensible and easy to read.

Jeff Cooper and other good gun reading.

Be sure and get recognized training. THEN practice a lot.
Practice 100 rounds of .22 for each 10 rounds of anything bigger. This will keep you from developing a flinch or if you begin to flinch, go back to the .22 to reduce it. (I have to do this after 5 rounds of .44Mag)

I was an evening Range Officer at a local indoor range every Thurs for 3 years. (shot about 15,000 rounds of my own during that time)

I saw many, many people start to get pretty good with .22 then as soon as they brought in their 9mm, they couldn't even hit the paper anymore. I don't like 9mm because of the sharp recoil that seems to ruin marksmanship. Folks wouldn't get so bad so quickly with a .45ACP.

Welcome to full citizenship (and the oppressed gun-rights class).

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#140571 - 07/21/08 12:37 PM Re: Getting a handgun and all that goes with it [Re: unimogbert]
Russ Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4592
Loc: SOCAL
Interesting, I find 9mm from a Glock 19 very easy to shoot. I definitely have less tendency to flinch than with a 1911A1 in .45ACP. One reason I chose the G-19 for carry was that it fit my hand and was so easy to shoot well. Maybe it's the 147 gr Gold Dot ammo.

I agree wrt shooting lots of .22. I bought a Ruger .22/45 and would shoot two boxes of .22 and then two magazines of .45. .22LR groups were very tight -- .45 not so much.

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