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#139870 - 07/16/08 08:06 PM Re: Dog defense? [Re: NightHiker]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
In a bug out situation a Ruger 22 pistol or a 10-22 rifle would be the best if you ran across a pack of dogs. But for a single dog, a can of pepper spray.


I donít know of a situation where you would run into a pack of dogs in this area. Is this even a remote possibility where you live?

I go out hunting Woodchucks by myself in the country quite often. I have only ever seen one dog at a time. I did have a mangy looking dog come at me once while hunting, it got shot with a 22-250, that ended that situation quick.


How often have any of you ran into a pack of wild dogs? And what part of the country did this happen in?
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#139871 - 07/16/08 08:12 PM Re: Dog defense? [Re: nursemike]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Feral dogs in packs hunt a lot like wolves...but I don't think feral dog packs encountering a person attack them because they think they're prey (unless you're gimp or a child). If the pack thinks you're a threat to their hierarchy of dominance, the alpha is going to try and take you down before you take him down. Most agression in canines come from a lack of dominance or a lack of structured dominance. If you show the dog who's boss with authority...then you're the boss. This is a common technique for making even the smallest dogs behave in your home. You make yourself the alpha and the dog behaves because you're the boss.

There was an interesting program a while ago (I think it was on Nova) about what would happen if people just dissappeared one day and they speculated that any dog that could get out of it's house, and was big enough to hunt (and not be killed by the bigger dominant dogs) would become feral and group themselves into packs regardless of breed in a very rapid amount of time. I find it fascinating how dogs can do this even if they're not raised in the wild. It's the same when dogs get picked up in packs of Coyotes. Half breed Coyotes can be really dangerous.

Now dogs which have been trained to fight or guard or have been raised a certain way might not work that way, I'm not sure. I do know that a dog raised in a normal home all it's life can turn into a savage predator in a fairly short period of time when it's surroundings change like going feral or being mistreated so who knows.

That's all good but I think the advice about a dog not stopping once it's committed is bang on. I've heard stories of attacking dogs having to be killed before they'd leg go of an arm or a leg. I'd say be prepared for a worst case scenario. I was told once that if the dog is going to get you, feet it your arm so it won't bite you somewhere vital (like the groin or neck) then fight with everything you've got...even if that means killing.

Personally I wouldn't want things to get that far...especially if you're bugging out. Who needs a shredded up arm when you're not in a position to go to the hospital? That in mind I'd think the pepper spray would be the best deterent as long as you're prepared for a fight in case it doesn't work. Having the other hand on a big stick, big knife, or even a big rock wouldn't be a bad idea.

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#139873 - 07/16/08 08:49 PM Re: Dog defense? [Re: ]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
In central California, dog attacks on livestock are a growing problem. I also have experienced very aggressive farm and ranch dogs. I remember such encounters as a paperboy that ended by my sacrificing a few papers to be chewed up after having my bicycle bags, and one on occasion my pant cuff, being chewed.

I don't want it to be a problem for me, but I am thinking through likely threats and how to deal with them. Especially if I had to go cross-county in a bug out scenario, I would expect a dog encounter or two as I went through "their" territory.

An internet search provided the same kind of ideas already mentioned in this thread and links to various products:

defense against dog attack:
http://www.wolfweb.com.au/acd/defenceagainstdogs.htm
http://www.laneselfdefense.com/blog/?p=13
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/living/family/dogtalk/s_432979.html
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalResources/Po...Dog-Attack.aspx
http://www.articlealley.com/article_548717_54.html


dog defense spray
http://www.guardian-self-defense.com/dogrepellent.htm
http://www.aaa-safetyfirst.com/WILDFIRE.htm

dog chaser electronic repeller
http://www.aaa-safetyfirst.com/dogchaser.htm

stun baton / gun
http://www.aaa-safetyfirst.com/telescopicstunbaton.htm
http://www.aaa-safetyfirst.com/doubletroublestungun.htm

stun alarm flashlight
http://www.aaa-safetyfirst.com/stunflashlights.htm

mace peper gel
http://www.aaa-safetyfirst.com/peppergel.htm

I am still trying to sort this out and welcome your thoughts.


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#139876 - 07/16/08 09:14 PM Re: Dog defense? [Re: dweste]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Treats are a good start. A hiking staff can be very handy also. Just keep it between you and the dog. They have a hard time with this simple obstacle. Also, most dogs are "bluffing" and are terrified of loud cracking noises, fireworks, gunshots. BTW, urban/suburban dogs would probably be much more of a hassle. I find country and farm dogs to be much more balanced and less aggressive. If you're carrying a shotgun or pistol, great. If not, bearspray, maybe some fireworks, and an easily accessible fixed blade knife. But again, IIRC the only accounts I read of "packs" of dogs going after humans happens in cities.

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#139877 - 07/16/08 09:41 PM Re: Dog defense? [Re: LED]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: LED
Treats are a good start. A hiking staff can be very handy also. Just keep it between you and the dog. They have a hard time with this simple obstacle. Also, most dogs are "bluffing" and are terrified of loud cracking noises, fireworks, gunshots. BTW, urban/suburban dogs would probably be much more of a hassle. I find country and farm dogs to be much more balanced and less aggressive. If you're carrying a shotgun or pistol, great. If not, bearspray, maybe some fireworks, and an easily accessible fixed blade knife. But again, IIRC the only accounts I read of "packs" of dogs going after humans happens in cities.


Anybody know how really loud whistles work? It's something most of us carry daily.

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#139884 - 07/16/08 10:43 PM Re: Dog defense? [Re: dweste]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Many years ago I read something somewhere about an attacking dog. Feed it your weak forarm, then put your strong forarm behind its head, and snap your weak forarm away from you at the same time you snap the stong one toward you. Supposed to break the dogs neck. Trust me, I have not tried this one, and hope you don't have to either...
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#139887 - 07/16/08 10:54 PM Re: Dog defense? [Re: dweste]
samhain Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 598
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Originally Posted By: dweste
My bugout "route" has many aternatives but encountering feral and farm dogs is a common factor. I have not thought through how to deal with dog encounters. I am especially concerned with encountering a pack of dogs.

I guess I could start with "nice doggie, here's a treat."

What do you think?


I wouldn't feed them. They'll associate you with food and even if they aren't a threat, they'll probably be a nuisance.

Second the pepper spray idea, pick out the lead dog and let'em have it.

Always have a back up plan though.
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samhain autumnwood

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#139891 - 07/16/08 11:10 PM Re: Dog defense? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Fitzoid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 289
Loc: WI, MA, and NYC
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
Many years ago I read something somewhere about an attacking dog. Feed it your weak forarm, then put your strong forarm behind its head, and snap your weak forarm away from you at the same time you snap the stong one toward you. Supposed to break the dogs neck. Trust me, I have not tried this one, and hope you don't have to either...


Was this in that old Time-Life magazine, Popular Ways to Die Painfully and Slowly?

grin
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"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." Henny Youngman

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#139903 - 07/17/08 12:19 AM Re: Dog defense? [Re: Fitzoid]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
During my bug out I would like to deal with the situation quietly, quickly, and without leaving any dogs permanently damaged - temporary problems totally acceptable.

Once I am settled in my retreat, well, as difficult as it may for me to consider, what does dog taste like?

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#139907 - 07/17/08 12:55 AM Re: Dog defense? [Re: dweste]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 788
Loc: wellington, fl
worked with some Filipino docs once. Their take was that dog tasted a little gamy, okay with enough garlic. They suggested that if you eat dog, you should stay away from dogs for a while, cuz the survivors smell it on your breath and take it poorly.
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