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#137780 - 06/26/08 04:19 PM Re: Outward Bound hikers lost [Re: Mike_H]
climberslacker Offline
Youth of the Nation
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 603
Oh, thanks Mike! My mom, was like "do you wanna do outward bound this sumer?" And I said " No, not really because the kids who do it hav never been out before, and I know more about suvival/first aid/wilderness then they do, so it would not really be fun..."


Edited by climberslacker (06/26/08 04:35 PM)
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#137782 - 06/26/08 04:26 PM Re: Outward Bound hikers lost [Re: climberslacker]
Mike_H Offline
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Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
Not a problem. I'm somewhat of a space nut. I follow most things related to the space program.

You would get more out of a good hiking/camping trip with the scouts then Outward Bound. I think the purpose of the program is more to teach leadership, self reliance, teamwork, etc... to those that need it. Scouts typically already have these skills. Would probably be an interesting trip tho, esp. if you are prepared and know more than some of the leaders...

Imagine a scenario... You are out hiking with them, you set camp for the night, and you whip out your alcohol stove and make a nice freezer bag dinner whilst others are just chomping down on some granola...
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#137785 - 06/26/08 04:33 PM Re: Outward Bound hikers lost [Re: Mike_H]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2532
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Mike_H
Depending on which type of sat phone depends on which sats they communicate with... Either GEO or LEO.

GEO? I am not familiar with this abbreviation.

Jeanette Isabelle
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#137786 - 06/26/08 04:36 PM Re: Outward Bound hikers lost [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
JCWohlschlag Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Sterling, Virginia, United Sta...
LEO = Low Earth Orbit
GEO = Geosynchronous (Orbits at the same RPM as the earth, so the satellite stays over the same spot on the equator all the time)

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
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#137790 - 06/26/08 04:47 PM Re: Outward Bound hikers lost [Re: JCWohlschlag]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2532
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: JCWohlschlag
GEO = Geosynchronous (Orbits at the same RPM as the earth, so the satellite stays over the same spot on the equator all the time)

Thank-you.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"I have no quarrel with you, good sir knight, but I must cross this bridge." Arthur, Monty Python and the Holy Grail

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#137793 - 06/26/08 04:51 PM Re: Outward Bound hikers lost [Re: JCWohlschlag]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
You are almost 100%. I should have spelled out the TLAs... (Three Letter Acronyms...) ;-)

I did intend to have GEO mean Geosynchronus. There is also Geostationary. Geostationary is always in the same position in the sky (over the equator), the only place where it could stay in the sky in the same place at the same time.

Geosynch is always in the same place in the sky at the same time... slightly different.

GPS uses MEO (Medium Earth Orbit) are are typically more visible from the ground than LEOs due to their higher altitude.

XM radio uses 2 (well, actually 4) Geostationary sats... The original ones were name 'Rock' and 'Roll'. The new ones are 'Rhythm' and 'Blues'. These last 2 are the new 'active' ones with the orignal 2 held as spares.

Sirius uses Geosynchronus sats.
_________________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own..." - Adam Savage / Mythbusters

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#137806 - 06/26/08 05:18 PM Re: Outward Bound hikers lost [Re: Mike_H]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1164
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Originally Posted By: Mike_H
Not a problem. I'm somewhat of a space nut. I follow most things related to the space program.

You would get more out of a good hiking/camping trip with the scouts then Outward Bound. I think the purpose of the program is more to teach leadership, self reliance, teamwork, etc... to those that need it. Scouts typically already have these skills. Would probably be an interesting trip tho, esp. if you are prepared and know more than some of the leaders...

Imagine a scenario... You are out hiking with them, you set camp for the night, and you whip out your alcohol stove and make a nice freezer bag dinner whilst others are just chomping down on some granola...


OB is designed for students of all ages and strives to put them
in new situations for growth. So if you are already a climber or
backpacker you would likely choose a course such as a sailing
or dog sledding course. We can all use more "leadership, self reliance, teamwork, etc" and courses are tailored to different
age groups, time frames, experience etc.

I like scouts too, been through it through explorer scouts and
it is a good way to keep you off the streets and teach some of
the same valuble skills in leadership and outdoor skills etc.
When my little boy grows enough I plan to start him in scouts.

The outward bound schools will teach some cutting edge skills
that may not be available to scouts outside of say Philmont.

For example the advanced climbing course at OB uses techniques
used by the American Mountain Guides Association. You would get
to try the latest anchoring practices etc.

The instructors are wonderful interesting people who
generally work part time at OB because they like to teach.
It is sort of a semi-volunteer job as the wages won't
allow someone to raise a family.

Some of the instructors I have worked with at OB have been:

College professors in geology, hydrology, botany, search and
rescue, recreation, education, biology, computer science,
wine making, and just about any other subject you can name.

Also

Air force survival instructors
a marine sergeant who taught at the Marine Corps' mountain training center
kiwi and english mountaineers
ultramarathoners
rock climbers that have climbed El Cap in a day
Everest summiters and guides
Alaskan Mountain guides
Organic Farmers

Many people will take an OB course during some life transition
such after graduation, job change etc. Sort of a rite of passage
and to have time away to think.

It is also a great place to get in good shape.

It works best when people are invested, want to go, and like
a challenge. They have some scholarships too.

If it paid better I would still be an Outward Bound Instructor
as it is great to see how people grow and get such a kick out
of their trips.


Edited by clearwater (06/26/08 05:19 PM)

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#137811 - 06/26/08 05:48 PM Re: Outward Bound hikers lost [Re: Angel]
quakedog Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 1
<iframe height="339" width="425" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/25366549#25366549" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe> Nightly News on the Hikers

I've seen this survival technique listed as a way to stop panic if lost - singing or whistling. I and my two other 13 year old friends went backpacking for 10 days in the American River Canyon. What were our parents thinking? We were all fairly experienced in the wild but... K.O. and I went off for a day hike leaving Chris behind to fish at the lake we were camping near. We only took a bit of water and some food with us, no map, no compass, no nothing. Canyons are potentially dangerous places to hike. They are littered with dry river beds and once you get off trail, each river bed and small hill all end up looking alike. It was summer of 1975, not a particularly hot day but dry enough for us to start panicking about water, rattlesnakes, buzzards over head following us and also putting our friend left behind in danger. I led K.O. and I for 8 hours in a huge loop that took us back to the beginning of our trail, we were 3 days into our 10 day trip. Instincts took over my radar and something else had us whistling for a good 6 hours of that “trip”. Knowing where the sun was at all times also was a huge help.

The 11 hikers in the Sierra’s were at 9000 feet. California still has snow at that level and this week has been weather challenged. They will find themselves safely home.

Survival Girl: <a href="http://www.quakedog.com/survivalkits">http://www.quakedog.com/survivalkits</a>


Edited by quakedog (06/26/08 05:50 PM)
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#137812 - 06/26/08 05:49 PM Re: Outward Bound hikers lost [Re: thseng]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1164
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Originally Posted By: thseng
Perhaps I missed it, but is there any info on why
the group did not make the rendezvous?


I didn't see this either, but my guess would be that the
Instructors were letting the students make their own navigation
decisions near the end of a course. I am sure the
instructors knew where they were (Courtwright Reservoir and
Florence Lake areas are open and easy to navigate around) but may have needed to step in a bit
earlier to help with the navigation. There are streams
there that could cause quite a bit of extra walking to a safe
crossing if you ended up in the wrong spot.

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#137815 - 06/26/08 05:57 PM Re: Outward Bound hikers lost [Re: clearwater]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
clearwater,

Thanks for the very informative info on OB! Great to get some first hand info.

Mike
_________________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own..." - Adam Savage / Mythbusters

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