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#136116 - 06/14/08 06:10 PM Re: Sustainable resources - New BOB idea [Re: NeighborBill]
OldBaldGuy Offline

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Thanks, me too. We are supposed to depart here Tues for the great northwest, but she can't travel in her current condition....

#136155 - 06/15/08 03:03 AM Re: Sustainable resources - New BOB idea [Re: OldBaldGuy]
NeighborBill Offline

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
DBLW is headed for Cali tomorrow, maybe you can live vicariously through him smile

Of course, it may be difficult to live thru someone who's six nine or so, but, hey, at least I have a tall DW.

Edited by billy.guttery (06/15/08 03:05 AM)
Edit Reason: Yes, that is a ballon in my pic. I have a four-year old.
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

#136169 - 06/15/08 09:07 AM Re: Sustainable resources - New BOB idea [Re: NeighborBill]
dweste Offline

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
OBG, best wishes for the wife's speedy and complete recovery.

Still too much time on my hands:

The nature and purpose of each type of survival gear collection [EDC, BOB, survival stash, and survival retreat] also drives our curiosity and desire to learn cross-over skills and acquire cross-over gear.

For example, EDC and BOB concerns make ultralight backpacking, trail running, escape and evasion, and first aid of interest. Survival stash concerns also stimulate interest in navigation, hunting, fishing, trapping, and edible and useful plant lore. Survival retreats drive us to learn about animal husbandry, farming, blacksmithing, and all the domestic arts that do not depend on reliable electricity.

Thoughts about very long term problems and the possibility of facing the future with nothing beyond EDC stimulate interest in so-called primitive skills such as fire-making, shelter-making, flint knapping, primitive pottery and basketry, etc.

And, of course, any the skills, gear, and information could come in handy at any time.

I feel much beter having that off my chest.


Edited by dweste (06/15/08 09:10 AM)

#136197 - 06/15/08 10:16 PM Re: Sustainable resources - New BOB idea [Re: MDinana]

Originally Posted By: MDinana
Depending how long you're stuck out in the sticks, your clothes and shoes might well fall apart. How's your skills at sewing and curing hides?

You will eventually run out of ammo. At which point, I'd probably go with a bow/arrow set up. You feel OK on fletching arrows (I don't)?

Otherwise, nice ideas!

It's true. And while my skills are good enough to make repairs, I wouldn't be able to do any tailoring...nor do I think that's an issue. For this concept I don't expect to be living in the wilds forever...just for an unknown length of time. That could be a week, a month, or several months. Certainly not long enough to wear out 2 sets of clothing.

The backup to the rifle is snares and traps. I wouldn't trust myself to make a bow and arrows then use them for survival...not with my current skills. The fishing rod is also there as well as the fishing supplies. With those combined I think I could stretch things out pretty far.

dweste: To me a bug out bag is personal and doesn't fit any set definition. Where is it written that 'bugging out' will only last 72 hours? If you want to get technical, I don't think the chances of 'bugging out' are very high in my case...I'd be surprised if it ever needed to happen at all. But as a preparedness exercise, I like to put these things together and try them out. It helps me plan, improve skills, etc. There are also side benefits because these exercises usually help me plan backpacking and camping trips because I have a better idea of what gear I can get by without.

For example I have no idea how long a box of .22LR would last me if I had to hunt for my meals...but if I never dabble with it, I'll never have a clue beyond a guess.

For me terms like 'survival stash' and 'survival retreat' don't even come into the picture and aren't something I plan for...or have intentions to pursue.

As far as EDC gear goes...for me EDC stuff isn't about being prepared for an emergency ("..get you to your BOB") as much as it's there to be prepared for every day life.

Maybe I just don't take it as seriously as some...it's the learning that interests me as much if not more than being ultimately prepared for everything and anything.

#136201 - 06/15/08 11:14 PM Re: Sustainable resources - New BOB idea [Re: Mike_H]
Susan Offline

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I still think you need a tarp. Shelter, to cover your gear, to cover the only dry firewood you've got, to collect rainwater, to use as a sun shield. And please don't say you'll have the river. Sprain your ankle badly even a relatively short distance from the river, and you have a problem, easily rectified if you have a tarp.

High-qualty lard will keep about a year, more in low temps.

Madness takes it toll ... please have exact change.

#136202 - 06/15/08 11:29 PM Re: Sustainable resources - New BOB idea [Re: Susan]

I picked up a tarp already thanks to the advice of you fine folks. 7'x10' should be enough combined with the tarp/poncho.

Good call in the injury side of things Susan. Even a bad blister can really screw up progress let alone a sprain or break...especially if you're not equipped to treat it.

#136220 - 06/16/08 01:46 AM Re: Sustainable resources - New BOB idea [Re: ]
Paragon Offline

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 231
Loc: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted By: Hacksaw
Personally I feel that food and water are easy to come by. I live in the city but I'm 15 minutes walk from the North Saskatchewan River where fish, birds, and bunnies are plentiful...it's also a much faster and safer way to get out if on foot.

While obviously you are planning to boil your water to purify it, I would consider adding a Katadyn Hiker Pro Water Filter or equivalent for those times that building a fire just doesn't make sense. Also keep in mind you can fill a 3 liter Camelbak in about three minutes with one of these, whereas boiling that much water would take quite some time.

With regard to water collection in urban environments, I keep a 4 Way Faucet Wrench in my BoB. Most commercial/industrial water silcocks do not have handles on them (for obvious security reasons) so one of these wrenches will allow you to easily fill up the Cammelbak as you are heading out of town.

I don't see any cookwear listed - I would think that cooking game in nothing more than a Crusader cup or a pointed stick would get old pretty fast.

The final thing that I would suggest is either a good quality wrist rocket (I have a Crosman Tempest that I'm pleased with) or at least a slingshot replacement band that can be used to fashion one from a forked branch and some paracord. This might serve as a practical alternative to using up your ammo on birds and small mammals, and could obviously also be used to make a crude harpoon for shallow water fishing.


My EDC and FAK

#136227 - 06/16/08 02:57 AM Re: Sustainable resources - New BOB idea [Re: Paragon]
dweste Offline

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
OBG, I am enjoying the discussion.

I adopted the general 72-hour idea for a BOB from some of the first discussions I read, but I have no investment in such a rule beyond saying it makes sense to me as a planning guideline.

Granted a BOB for each of us will be individual in the sense that we have preferences, varying medication needs, and wear different sizes of clothing, etc.

However, if we start with the Rule of Threes for survival [3 minutes without air, 3 hours without shelter, 3 days without water, and 3 weeks without food] as a sensible BOB planning guideline, and add in the fact that we are supposed to cover some distance while carrying the thing [bugging out] then our BOB contents are going to fall into categories that are not very individual.

But I have been properly corrected before.

What do you think?

#136277 - 06/16/08 05:48 PM Re: Sustainable resources - New BOB idea [Re: dweste]

Great suggestions Paragon...these are things I would never think of. I went for walk in the river valley on my lunch break today and found lots of great stuff. Fishing spots, edible mushrooms and flowers, and 2 working fountains...if the fountains didn't work, your wrench could be a great help in a pinch.

The only filter I would take is one that can be flushed out and reused like the Sawyer ones. I've been trying to find one locally to buy. I'd like to try putting it inline on the hose of my 3L drinking bladder. If the filters need to be replaced I'd be better off taking my MIOX pen with spare batteries...less space and almost as much water can be treated (depending on batteries of course).

The sling shot is also a good idea though I'd need to practice up...I haven't shot at a moving target with one of those since I was 9.

I missed where you mentioned primitive living skills dweste and you hit the nail on the head. These are the skills I don't have and excercises like this force me to think about what skills would benefit me if I learned them. I don't need to be an expert in all aspects but there are at least a few key skills that I'm going to get a grasp on this summer.

You're also right about the rule of 3s and this is something I think about a lot when I get to thinking about stuff like this. There's no way I can carry 3 weeks of food so presumably there will be a point where I'll run out if my journey takes me longer than 72 hours (or however much food I'd planned for). At that point we're fasting unless we have the skill and tools to find more. Since that's how I think about it, I couldn't decide where to draw the line...so I drew it at no food to see if it could be done. It's all still academic because I haven't actually done it...but it's coming.

#136293 - 06/16/08 07:16 PM Re: Sustainable resources - New BOB idea [Re: ]
Susan Offline

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"There's no way I can carry 3 weeks of food so presumably there will be a point where I'll run out if my journey takes me longer than 72 hours (or however much food I'd planned for)."

When you head out with 3 days of food, one hopes that you will be able to supplement that with local resources such as berries, nuts, small game, relatives.... thus extending your carried food.

One thing to be aware of is always to keep an eye out for old "homesteads", burnt out buildings, concrete foundations, etc. Many old gardens had edible plants that have reseeded themselves with something useful. I once came across an old chimney, and while prowling around, came across what looked like a potato patch. Digging a bit, I found a source of spuds!

When people leave "stuff" behind, some of it may be in their gardens.


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