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#136590 - 06/18/08 02:38 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Tjin]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
I think the key is the misnomer "for your own safety".

As several volunteers have stated here, they will not ignore a call for help, no matter how stupid the victim is. They will put their own lives in danger to try to save yours.

So before you get all huffed up about YOUR rights, think about your moral obligation to not selfishly put others in danger.

In other words, stay out of a disaster area for the sake of the safety of those that will try to bail you out no matter what.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#136603 - 06/18/08 04:35 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: thseng]
Nishnabotna Offline
Icon of Sin
Addict

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Nebraska
Sorry, while I do get the point that the OP was trying to make about readiness I will not give up any of my rights, especially under the guise of "protection."
That being said, I probably wouldn't try to break thru a check point because I do understand the risks (not just from irate cops, but the situations described) and I do think that thseng is correct about obligations to others.
But the minute I believe that the public servants are no longer working in my best interests, all social contracts are void.

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#136606 - 06/18/08 04:44 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Tjin]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Is there or has there been an extensive public education program on the meaning of the sirens? Could simply be the citizens are unaware of the meaning of the sirens?

In our area, most rural Fire Departments still blow the house siren routinely at noon and at other times to alert the volunteers to respond to the station or scene of an incident, so hearing one is fairly common and does not require any action by the residents. In some areas, certain siren patterns and/or length of siren may indicate some type of incident that requires the resident to take some action, but I would venture to guess with all of the relocation and growth that occurs, most of the newer residents would have no clue as to what the siren patterns indicated.

Our Fire Departments located within the larger communities no longer blow the house siren, so if it goes off it would be something of which to take notice. However, the effective distance of the sirens would most likely make them almost useless, except in the immediate area of the stations and most residents would likely be clueless as to their meaning. We simply no longer rely upon these sirens for alerting the residents.

Now, where I work at Ft. Detrick, there is a fairly extensive distribution of sirens/public announcement speakers and most workers do know to listen for the siren and any accompanying announcement. Living only a couple of blocks from the front gate, we are able to hear these from our home.

Pete

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#136609 - 06/18/08 05:00 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Nishnabotna]
Blast Online   happy
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3594
Loc: TX
Quote:
the minute I believe that the public servants are no longer working in my best interests, all social contracts are void.


Could you clarify whether you mean your interests in particular or the overall interest of society? The two concepts can quite often be at odds.

-Blast
_________________________
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#136616 - 06/18/08 05:42 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Blast]
Nishnabotna Offline
Icon of Sin
Addict

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Blast
Quote:
the minute I believe that the public servants are no longer working in my best interests, all social contracts are void.


Could you clarify whether you mean your interests in particular or the overall interest of society? The two concepts can quite often be at odds.

-Blast

Ha, good point. Short answer is my own interests - they intersect with societies interests more often than not.
But we could split hairs all day long in a debate like that. Suffice to say that I lean towards libertarianism.

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#136624 - 06/18/08 06:11 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: paramedicpete]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1777
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
Is there or has there been an extensive public education program on the meaning of the sirens? Could simply be the citizens are unaware of the meaning of the sirens?

In our area, most rural Fire Departments still blow the house siren routinely at noon and at other times to alert the volunteers to respond to the station or scene of an incident, so hearing one is fairly common and does not require any action by the residents. In some areas, certain siren patterns and/or length of siren may indicate some type of incident that requires the resident to take some action, but I would venture to guess with all of the relocation and growth that occurs, most of the newer residents would have no clue as to what the siren patterns indicated.

Our Fire Departments located within the larger communities no longer blow the house siren, so if it goes off it would be something of which to take notice. However, the effective distance of the sirens would most likely make them almost useless, except in the immediate area of the stations and most residents would likely be clueless as to their meaning. We simply no longer rely upon these sirens for alerting the residents.

Now, where I work at Ft. Detrick, there is a fairly extensive distribution of sirens/public announcement speakers and most workers do know to listen for the siren and any accompanying announcement. Living only a couple of blocks from the front gate, we are able to hear these from our home.

Pete


Well there was a extensive education program and every first Monday of the month they are tested, so people know how they sound like. They are not use for anything else and nothing else sounds like it. They are stand alone sirens, though. So announcements are not made from these sirens, but on the local radio and TV channel.

The people standing outside watching knows what the sirens mean. People have ask them, if they knew what the sirens mend, they do. But knowing what you are suppose to do and actually do the thing you are suppose to do are unfortunately two different things. I guess that most people don't take the sirens serious, because nobody has died or injured from not listen... yet.

Sometimes you can say that people here are to safe and protected, so people are not prepared for disasters at all.


Edited by PC2K (06/18/08 06:13 PM)
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#136645 - 06/18/08 08:11 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: Tjin]
Spiritwalker Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 104
Saying or even believing that someone is acting “in the interest of public safety” and them actually doing so are two different things.

CNN report on New Orleans LEOs involved in looting.

Quote:

...The hotel's owner, Osman Khan, told CNN that on the night of August 29, when the city flooded, 70 police officers had moved into his Canal Street hotel. He said that 62 went out to fight looters and thugs on the streets, while eight launched a four-day drinking and looting binge.

"They'd leave [at] nine or 10 at night and come back 4:30 in the morning," carrying "everything from Adidas shoes to Rolex watches," Khan said.

The eight officers were drinking almost all of the time, said hotel engineer Perry Emery, and when he came to the men's 10th floor room to bring towels, he saw "jewelry, generators, fans."

"One time they came back with a bunch of weapons," Emery said. He said he had no doubts about what he witnessed: "These were New Orleans police officers -- looting."


Strange isn't it that the 62 other trained police officers staying in that hotel never noticed or took any action against their criminal colleagues?

Government Emergency Shelter?

Quote:

Tired, hungry and traumatised by days spent under the damaged roof of a once-gleaming football stadium, the refugees of New Orleans have spoken of a nightmarish week living among the crazed and the desperate.

Stories of rape, murder and suicide have emerged.


Of course these reports are mostly "unconfirmed" and/or denied by "officials". Anyone familiar with complaints or reports of wrong doing against government organizations or agencies can attest to the amazing reliability in which those reports cannot be "confirmed" by internal investigations, unless of course you have video-taped evidence. (Coincidently, the use of cameras and audio-tape recorders are prohibited in government facilities and tapes made by internal surveillance cameras "disappear" with disturbing regularity.)

In any case, I agree wholeheartedly with the OP about having “A Fast Mobilization Plan“. Part of that plan for me is the avoidance of contact with “civil and military authorities” as much as is possible, even if that means disregarding “official instructions and emergency proclamations”.

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#136682 - 06/18/08 11:52 PM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: MartinFocazio]
samhain Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 598
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
Originally Posted By: Russ
Nice editing of your quote of my post. Who said anything about pulling a gun at a checkpoint?


Sorry, I didn't mean to attribute that to you, user error here.

My point was we're talking about checkpoints, someone brings up guns while in the discussion (samhain) and having worked a checkpoint, I tend to connect the dots, maybe a little too fast, and presumes that the author of the post about what guns to get (not you, Samhain) was implying that he needed greater firepower to bypass a checkpoint. If that was not the intended direction, my apologies. No offense intended, and I hope none taken. Again, not my intention to paint you in a bad light.


No problem at all Martin, no offense taken.

Just to clarify: I was not thinking about using a firearm to bypass a checkpoint (I may be crazy but I ain't stooopid) crazy .

Any bug out preps are to eliminate the need for us to have to return to the area before it's safe.

To my way of thinking a checkpoint is there to protect me and mine as much as protecting everyone else and I cooperate with LEOs 150%.

It was the idiot in the truck trying to force his way through that caused me to pause. I just had an image in my head of being on a dark highway with my DW and DD with some guy like that around (someone I perceive as not having any respect for the safety of LEO's much less me).
_________________________
peace,
samhain autumnwood

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#136704 - 06/19/08 03:11 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: thseng]
Spiritwalker Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 104
Originally Posted By: thseng

...So before you get all huffed up about YOUR rights, think about your moral obligation to not selfishly put others in danger...


Speaking just for myself, It's not likely that I would prepare to take care of myself and those I care about or be spending much time on a emergency/disaster preparedness website if I were inclined to "selfishly put others in danger".

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#136735 - 06/19/08 10:58 AM Re: Why You Need A Fast Mobilization Plan [Re: BillLiptak]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2847
Originally Posted By: BillLiptak
Personally I don't think the citizens of the United States should ever have their rights suspended "for their own good". If they want to go into the flood zone that badly, let them. Tell them the risks and have them sign a waiver, to cover legal a$$es that might be seen as libel, telling them that NO 911/rescue will be available. They know of all the risks and consequences of their actions. If they die so be it. Darwinism at work.

-Bill Liptak


I was just about to say the same thing. On one hand I understand the LEO's not wanting to allow people into a dangerous area since they will be called upon to rescue them shortly, but if people sitll insist upon going then they need to provide all their phone numbers they might call from so their calls for rescue can be ignored.

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