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#135475 - 06/10/08 10:37 PM Re: A Challenge with a Question [Re: Dan_McI]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Originally Posted By: Dan_McI
Originally Posted By: SHawk
On the same note, what direction is shown by the shortest shadow a local noon when using the stick and shadow method of direction finding.


Wouldn't that depend on both the observers latitude and the sun's declination?


No, it wouldn't depend on either. The shortest shadow from a steady vertical stick points directly to the true north (in northern hemisphere) no matter what. Just remove the "local noon" wording and don't be confused with magnetic north term.

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#135476 - 06/10/08 10:45 PM Re: A Challenge with a Question [Re: Alex]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4987
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: Alex
. . . The shortest shadow from a steady vertical stick points directly to the true north (in northern hemisphere) no matter what. . .
IIRC, in the lower northern latitudes in summer (about this time of year), the sun will cast a southerly shadow. . .

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#135477 - 06/10/08 10:47 PM Re: A Challenge with a Question [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Nice image!
By the way the stick and shadow will work there as good as near the equator. But also at midnight too (longest shadow points to south).

You're right, Russ. At some extreme latitude it will be hard to work with. But still the shortest shadow will point to the north. Except that you're watching the shadow from the flag on the North Pole. smile


Edited by Alex (06/10/08 10:56 PM)

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#135483 - 06/10/08 11:20 PM Re: A Challenge with a Question [Re: Alex]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2811
Loc: La-USA
If you're standing at the North Pole, which direction are you facing???

South!
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#135487 - 06/10/08 11:50 PM Re: A Challenge with a Question [Re: Alex]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4987
Loc: SOCAL
Actually, I was at the other extreme. The lower northern latitudes would be near the equator and as the sun gets higher in the sky for us further north, it passes north of folks nearer the equator and causes a southerly shadow. The Tropic of Cancer (23° 26' 22" north of the Equator) is the northern limit in this hemisphere.

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#135488 - 06/10/08 11:59 PM Re: A Challenge with a Question [Re: Russ]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Ops! Me bad. Missed the word "lower" smile Sure, you are absolutely right.


Edited by Alex (06/10/08 11:59 PM)

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#135526 - 06/11/08 12:38 PM Re: A Challenge with a Question [Re: wildman800]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: wildman800
Being that far North, shouldn't the sun be setting to the west-sou'west???? It sure looks to me like you are seeing a sunset in the northwest while in the northern hemisphere.


I don't think so. In summer, then sun should set in the northwest for the entire northern hemisphere, and in the southwest in all of winter. It only sets near the true west close to the equinox.


Edited by Dan_McI (06/11/08 12:45 PM)

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#135527 - 06/11/08 12:44 PM Re: A Challenge with a Question [Re: Alex]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: Alex
Originally Posted By: Dan_McI
Originally Posted By: SHawk
On the same note, what direction is shown by the shortest shadow a local noon when using the stick and shadow method of direction finding.


Wouldn't that depend on both the observers latitude and the sun's declination?


No, it wouldn't depend on either. The shortest shadow from a steady vertical stick points directly to the true north (in northern hemisphere) no matter what. Just remove the "local noon" wording and don't be confused with magnetic north term.


Not always.

If you are near the Equator, and the sun is near the solstice, then the sun is going to possibly cast a shadow toward the south, even though you are in the northern hemisphere.

For example, today the sun has a declination of about 23.1 degrees North. If you were at a latitude of ten degrees north, then the sun would cast a shadow to the south at noon or local apparent north. As the sun was nearer setting or rising, the direction of the shadow would change toward the eat or west, but it would never be north during the day.

Alternatively, if you are in very high latitudes near the solstice, the days during which the sun never sets, then near midnight, the sun will also cast a shadow toward the south.

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#135540 - 06/11/08 02:12 PM Re: A Challenge with a Question [Re: wildman800]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
As a scienturvival (don't use that one in scrabble) project, I was gonna stay up late to see exactly where the moon set, then get up early to see where the sun rose, then try to figure out how to fine true north. But I failed...
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#135560 - 06/11/08 03:53 PM Re: A Challenge with a Question [Re: OldBaldGuy]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2811
Loc: La-USA
you have to find true north first and then observed what bearing the sun or moon rose/set.

I think you'll find the rising/settings are more north than what it should be.
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The best luck is what you make yourself!

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