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#134874 - 06/05/08 06:39 PM Tool of Choice
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
In a forum where the number one tool of choice is a pocket knife, I have mentioned a few times that my tool of choice is a pair of EMT shears. I don't try to be a rebel, it's simply a pair of EMT shears works best for me for my environment. How many brave souls are out there who are willing to admit they use something other than a pocket knife and what is your tool of choice?

Jeanette Isabelle
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"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#134880 - 06/05/08 08:00 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


You're braver than most!

For many of us (and I'm by no means immune) pride, greed, and lust get in the way of better judgement.

I tell people all the time the only knife they need is a $9 Mora but personally spend tons on cutlery that I don't need.

EMT Shears are great but I hide mine in my first aid kits...where I usually can't get at them for the every day tasks they excel at.

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#134881 - 06/05/08 08:12 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 788
Loc: wellington, fl
Right on, Jeannette-
We carry knives only because they won't let us carry swords.

I agree that EMT shears can do almost anything that a knife can do-scissors are, after all, just two funny-looking knives hooked together. And, with the regard to psk's that will make it past the airport screen, please note that pointed scissors with blades less than 4 inches are permissible. (http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm)
So, one can travel with a useful edged device-EMT shears.
So under your gentle and astute guidance, we will soon see the blade in the DRPSK replaces with teeny scissors from a swiss army knife.
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#134882 - 06/05/08 08:35 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: nursemike]
bsmith Offline
day hiker
Addict

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 584
Loc: ventura county, ca

in a previous environment my first choice was also emt shears.

now the tool of choice for me is a leatherman squirt p4.

it's an edc item for me. and it has a blade.


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#134883 - 06/05/08 08:54 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: bsmith]
climberslacker Offline
Youth of the Nation
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 603
I am going to(next year) edc trauma shears, just because my school doesn't let me carry a knife (even though I do sometimes, and I know plenty of people who do) just because I really don't want to risk it.
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#134888 - 06/05/08 10:02 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: nursemike]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: nursemike
So under your gentle and astute guidance, we will soon see the blade in the DRPSK replaces with teeny scissors from a swiss army knife.

I don't want to see that. The point is to use the best tool for the job. If a Katana happens the best tool for the job, use a Katana, don't use a wrench.

Jeanette Isabelle
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"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#134889 - 06/05/08 10:28 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5099
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
. . .The point is to use the best tool for the job. . .
Exactly, which is why I've switched to various SAK's and multi-tools for daily carry. Scissors are just one of the very useful tools. I found myself not needing the high end steels in my locking folders and that Victor's Inox wink steel is more than adequate for 99% of what I need a knife for. Leatherman and Swiss Army Knives are great to have handy. I'm not ready to fall back to a pair of EMT shears, but have no problem with those that can. cool
'course, if you look in my EDC backpack, you'll find a mini RSK, I just can't not carry a good locking folder

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#134892 - 06/05/08 10:36 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
dougwalkabout Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2747
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Nothing wrong with EMT shears. You can accomplish a great deal with them. And you're probably better prepared for the unexpected than any of your friends.

I carry EMT shears on commercial aircraft, and am glad to have them.

But it's worth noting that a knife has a broader range of uses, especially outside of urban (man-made) areas. So that tends to be the default tool of choice for most of us.

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#134894 - 06/05/08 10:53 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: dougwalkabout]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
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Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
But it's worth noting that a knife has a broader range of uses, especially outside of urban (man-made) areas. So that tends to be the default tool of choice for most of us.

Considering how most of the members seem to be "the great outdoors" type, I would agree.

Jeanette Isabelle
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#134915 - 06/06/08 02:16 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
OldBaldGuy Offline
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Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
I have several pair of ETM scissors scattered around, but I can't whittle with them, and more importantly, I can't clean my fingernails with them. So I pack my Leatherman Wave all the time. Won't cut a penny in half like the EMT's will, but it will do a lot of other usefull things...
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#134919 - 06/06/08 02:33 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Paul D. Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/04
Posts: 177
Loc: Porkopolis
EMT shears are handy, but it's bloody difficult to baton cut a small tree with them, fillet fish, etc.

That being said, there is a pair of them in my FAK every time I go out into the woods, or on a trip, just not EDC.
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#134922 - 06/06/08 02:41 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
My number one tool is something that can make fire (lighter, ferro-rod, ect). A blade of some sort is #2. Usually I can improvise a somewhat suitable blade based on what I find, but generally it's much harder to make a fire from improvised materials, especially on a cold wet night. When I would need it most.

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#134923 - 06/06/08 02:45 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Paul D.]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Paul D.
EMT shears are handy, but it's bloody difficult to baton cut a small tree with them, fillet fish, etc.

That is why you use the right tool for the job.

Jeanette Isabelle
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"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#134929 - 06/06/08 03:46 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: OldBaldGuy]
frostbite Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 148
Loc: TN
....cut a penny in half....

The only "EMT scissors" I ever saw were in a first aid kit I bought long ago, and they couldn't cut gauze, just sort of chewed on it, so I threw them away. Must not have been the real thing.

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#134932 - 06/06/08 04:05 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Paul810]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Paul810. I'm second to that. Knife, shears, multitools... - easy to improvise functions. Fire - no easy way. I believe human became human when they found a way to make fire (which in turn provided the ways to make good tools).

Anyhow, IMHO, tool of choice - is a wrong question if it's out of context of "best for the job". We talking here not about the job, but about survival I believe?

Ouch! Around The Campfire forum section? Not the long awaited Gear Only one? Well, then my brains is my tool of choice. And this forum is the proper sharpener. So, isn't the Internet is the best tool for the job then?

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#134937 - 06/06/08 10:57 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
BlueSky Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 36
Loc: DFW TX
frostbite said what I was thinking. I must be missing something, as the scissors I'm thinking were pretty pathetic compared to even the most modest of knives. Is there a secret that I should pursue finding out about?

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#134941 - 06/06/08 12:21 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Alex
Anyhow, IMHO, tool of choice - is a wrong question if it's out of context of "best for the job". We talking here not about the job, but about survival I believe?

Let me clarify, the best tool for the job with the job being survival.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#134943 - 06/06/08 12:32 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: BlueSky]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: BlueSky
frostbite said what I was thinking. I must be missing something, as the scissors I'm thinking were pretty pathetic compared to even the most modest of knives. Is there a secret that I should pursue finding out about?

I'm not talking about what you find in in a cheap first aid kit. A good pair of EMT shears will cost around $5. Some drug stores carry them, some do not. Adventure Medical Kits has some at $4.95. http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/item_detail.asp?ID=0155-0880

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#134950 - 06/06/08 01:05 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: frostbite]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Originally Posted By: frostbite
....cut a penny in half....

The only "EMT scissors" I ever saw were in a first aid kit I bought long ago, and they couldn't cut gauze, just sort of chewed on it, so I threw them away. Must not have been the real thing.


I bought about a dozen a few months back - 2 of them couldn't cut gauze, and went in the round file, the rest were fine. Remember that they are meant to be semi disposable - they last long enough to cut the clothes off 1-2 patients (usually 1) and you throw them away, as the cost of re-sterilizing is too high

When you buy them by the dozen, they were just about $1 each, and when you move up to 50 at a time, if I remember right, they were 75 cents
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#134952 - 06/06/08 01:18 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Russ]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


I use the AMK ones in my First Aid Kits. Tested them on leather since that's the toughest thing I'd likely need to cut...they do the job fine.

Originally Posted By: Russ
...I found myself not needing the high end steels in my locking folders and that Victor's Inox wink steel is more than adequate for 99% of what I need a knife for...


I've always found that for every day/household emergencies the small, thin blades of a SAK are better than most pocket knives. I still carry a pocket knife anytime I'm not at work because I like to have something with a blade that locks in case I need to get into something that's going to test the knife a bit like working with wood...a rare thing at home where the toughest thing I cut is the inpenetrable packaging of new gizmos.

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#134955 - 06/06/08 01:50 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: frostbite]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...Must not have been the real thing..."

For sure. "Real" EMT scissors will cut a penny in half with ease. A co-worker once used his to cut the overhead control cables (REALLY tough cable) in order to remove the wing from a crashed aircraft to access the injured pilot. Try that with a SAK!!!
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#134961 - 06/06/08 02:37 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Paul D. Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/04
Posts: 177
Loc: Porkopolis
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
Originally Posted By: Paul D.
EMT shears are handy, but it's bloody difficult to baton cut a small tree with them, fillet fish, etc.

That is why you use the right tool for the job.

Jeanette Isabelle


That's true, that's why I carry a knife daily. grin
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#134965 - 06/06/08 03:00 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Paul D.]
BillLiptak Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 259
I carry three tools of choice, 5 if you count the leatherman micra and vic classic I got hanging on the keychain.
First off I carry a buck/strider 880 spearpoint for everyday urban things and work. I work in a warehouse and sometimes the galvanized pipes get clogged with wet packing p-nuts. It helps having a good, beefy folder to punch nice big holes thru it and hack out a 2" x 3" access hole to run fiberglass rods down it to clear the jam. Follow that with a duct tape patch and I'm good to go.
Second, for a handy "toolbox" I carry the victorinox swiss tool for those times when I need pliars or a screwdriver and don't feel like walking halfway thru the plant and unlocking my toolchests.
Lastly, for urban carry and not scaring people half to death by whipping out my large folder, I have a victorinox swisschamp. Handy with tweezers, toothpick and a host of tools (true mostly redundant) that can be used without giving someone a heartattack and scaring the bejesus outta them. Nothing seems to be more innoculous than the red handled swiss army knife for all but the most skittish.

-Bill Liptak

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#134973 - 06/06/08 04:09 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: BillLiptak]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
I typically EDC a SAK and a Leatherman Wave. The wave has the tool adapter and a few other bits in the leather case. I don't thing I would find much use for the bits in the outdoors tho, but you never know.

I never really thought about taking EMT shears into the outdoors tho, but I can certainly see some use for them. I'm looking at purchasing a better knife for my main blade. Something that you can chop with yet be functional for other things... 3 or 4 blades are better than one... Each having their own uses.

So, how about a list of what EMT shears would be good for in the great outdoors? Besides cutting a penny in half... I love being able to do that for some strange reason...
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#134983 - 06/06/08 04:49 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Swiss Tool Spirit with Scissors!
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#134985 - 06/06/08 04:54 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Mike_H]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 788
Loc: wellington, fl
Scissors are faster and safer than knives for:
-accurately cutting fabric, tape, gauze pads and rolls
-accurately cutting string and thread
-cutting small diameter wire and cable
-stripping wire
-dicing up carrots and celery
-rapidly reducing big twigs into small twigs
-cutting your clothes off when you're really tired
-making paper snowflakes when trapped inside on a rainy day.
-trimming hair
-trimming candle wicks
-cutting light sheet metal and plastic
-getting past airport screeners and police stops.
-peeling the foil off the champagne bottle in your rucksack
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#134989 - 06/06/08 05:11 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: nursemike]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2186
Loc: Bluegrass
Originally Posted By: nursemike
Scissors are faster and safer than knives for:
... edited for length...

Unless you happen to be running with them laugh

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#134994 - 06/06/08 05:28 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: nursemike]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Sounds like fun. Just remember, that scissors are:
-can be easily bent sideways and became useless, don't try splitting wood with them
-have a hinge which is easy to break or lose
-very ineffective for most wood work
-controlled by hands only, so get a knife and a ruler if you need really straight cuts
-can't work over tightly attached subjects (like rope on a pole)
-not good at cutting holes less than an inch in diameter
-not very effective for throwing at a target
-usually very prone to rust
-became dull very quickly (if used on wire or sheet metal)
-harder to clean from dirt (because of the hinge)

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#134996 - 06/06/08 05:35 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1096
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Scissors are safer when cutting rope or webbing in a high angle
situation.

Most EMT snips are stainless.

Scissors can be resharpened, I do it everyday.

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#135001 - 06/06/08 05:52 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: MDinana]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Originally Posted By: MDinana

Unless you happen to be running with them laugh

laugh Knife will make just one hole in you on impact, scissors - two?

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#135004 - 06/06/08 06:42 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2747
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I'm not sure the original post mentioned a need to baton trees or gut fish. The post seems to refer to an urban environment. There's also no hint of an anti-knife tirade.

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#135008 - 06/06/08 07:24 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: dougwalkabout]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Nothing personal really. However, a sudden guest of the forum may note the very broad name of the Topic and carry out a wrong impression that EMT snips are the ultimate tool for any job. Some means of confronting that idea wouldn't hurt that much. I simply gave some examples of the scissors physical and constructional weaknesses, one should be aware of (i.o.w. it's not really necessary to button the wood wit scissors to bend them badly).

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#135011 - 06/06/08 07:43 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Mike_H]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Mike_H
So, how about a list of what EMT shears would be good for in the great outdoors? Besides cutting a penny in half... I love being able to do that for some strange reason...

In addition to first aid related tasks, EMT shears can also do the following:

Cut through the stainless steel utility wire in the Pocket Survival Pack (I have done that with my EMT shears)
Cut through a seat belt (I have never tried that but I read that it is doable)
Open up boxes and even the most stubborn packages (done that)
Cut duct tape (done that too)

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#135012 - 06/06/08 07:46 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: MDinana]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: MDinana
Originally Posted By: nursemike
Scissors are faster and safer than knives for:
... edited for length...

Unless you happen to be running with them laugh

EMT shears have a blunt tip.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#135013 - 06/06/08 07:59 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 788
Loc: wellington, fl
Originally Posted By: Alex
Originally Posted By: MDinana

Unless you happen to be running with them laugh

laugh Knife will make just one hole in you on impact, scissors - two?


which in turn emphasizes the offenive/defensive capabilities of scissors: "Freeze, dirtbag, or I'll snip!"

Item 2: while not effective for batoning wood or gutting fish, scissors are excellent for gutting wood and batoning fish.
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#135014 - 06/06/08 08:03 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: nursemike]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Fish can be gutted with scissors just fine. EMT shears might make a mess of things but I've disemboweled a trout with scissors.

They also work great for doing the same with poultry. Snipping through chicken bones doesn't do wonders for the edge of a knife but scissors don't seem to care. EMT shears would make short work of quartering fowl in a survival situation.

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#135016 - 06/06/08 08:11 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Alex
-can be easily bent sideways and became useless, don't try splitting wood with them

I never said they could. Since the point I made is that a pair of EMT shears is the best tool for me and my environment, why would I use them on wood when I don't work with wood?

Originally Posted By: Alex
-have a hinge which is easy to break or lose

No they don't. I've had one pair of EMT shears for a couple of years and I have never encountered that problem.

Originally Posted By: Alex
-not very effective for throwing at a target

Why would I throw anything at a target?

Originally Posted By: Alex
-usually very prone to rust

That is not true. EMT shears are made with stainless steel.

Originally Posted By: Alex
-became dull very quickly (if used on wire or sheet metal)

EMT shears are semi-disposable. If they get old, replace them.

Originally Posted By: Alex
-harder to clean from dirt (because of the hinge)

That's odd, I have never encountered that problem before. Then again, I don't throw my shears in the dirt.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#135017 - 06/06/08 08:17 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: dougwalkabout]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
There's also no hint of an anti-knife tirade.

Why would someone who is pro-gun be anti-knife?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#135019 - 06/06/08 08:24 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2186
Loc: Bluegrass
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
Originally Posted By: MDinana
Originally Posted By: nursemike
Scissors are faster and safer than knives for:
... edited for length...

Unless you happen to be running with them laugh

EMT shears have a blunt tip.

Jeanette Isabelle


You're right. However, Nursemike never specified EMS shears.

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#135020 - 06/06/08 08:42 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Alex
Nothing personal really. However, a sudden guest of the forum may note the very broad name of the Topic and carry out a wrong impression that EMT snips are the ultimate tool for any job.

I don't see how a guest would get that impression when a pocket knife is so often proclaimed as the ultimate, universal tool for everybody and every situation. There are two facts we need to keep in mind.

1. A pocket knife is not the primary tool for everybody and every situation.
2. A pair of EMT shears is not the primary tool for everybody and every situation.

Once you got all that figured out then there is no problem.

Originally Posted By: Alex
Some means of confronting that idea wouldn't hurt that much.

I completely agree.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#135022 - 06/06/08 09:00 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
There's also no hint of an anti-knife tirade.

Why would someone who is pro-gun be anti-knife?

Jeanette Isabelle


That's the feeling I get from the US as a Canadian. There are laws in the US prohibiting certain knives, types of knives, lengths of knives, ownership of knives but gun control is very loose compared to Canada.

Here knives aren't regulated or restricted in any way to speak of.

On the other hand few people are shot around here but many are stabbed...so I guess that tells us something.

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#135023 - 06/06/08 09:04 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle

...
Originally Posted By: Alex
-became dull very quickly (if used on wire or sheet metal)

EMT shears are semi-disposable. If they get old, replace them.
...

That's exactly the reason why you've never noticed any abovementioned problems with them. IMHO, disposable concept is very comfortable, but overall evil invention. They draw your money, dull your skills, and damage the environment.

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#135030 - 06/06/08 09:27 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: ]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Hacksaw
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
Why would someone who is pro-gun be anti-knife?


That's the feeling I get from the US as a Canadian. There are laws in the US prohibiting certain knives, types of knives, lengths of knives, ownership of knives but gun control is very loose compared to Canada.

Valid point. With that said, I can't think of a way to disprove the notion I am anti-knife.

What I am against is trying to force the notion that there is one tool for everybody and every situation.

Jeanette Isabelle
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"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#135033 - 06/06/08 09:37 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Alex
dull your skills,

I don't see how.

Originally Posted By: Alex
and damage the environment.

Considering what people throw out, more specifically what was never meant to be disposable, worn out EMT shears wouldn't even register as damaging environmental factor.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#135034 - 06/06/08 09:40 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
dougwalkabout Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2747
Loc: Alberta, Canada
JeanetteIsabelle, there's no need to be so defensive. If you look at my previous post again, you'll realize that I was neither attacking you nor suggesting that you were against knives.

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#135037 - 06/06/08 10:05 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
Originally Posted By: Alex
dull your skills,

I don't see how.

Example.
How many American people really know how to properly wash dishes clean when camping in the field with no hot water, no soap, no sponges? Typical answer: "Why would I want to wash paper plates and plastic utensils?"

EMT shears example explicitly? Ok. Have you ever considered studying the finest skill of blade sharpening? Or do you know how to cut steel wire with your bare hands (simple physics)? Typical answer: "I don't need that. I have my environment. Granted."...

Regarding the environment pollution - every tiny bit adds.

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#135048 - 06/07/08 01:26 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Alex
EMT shears example explicitly? Ok. Have you ever considered studying the finest skill of blade sharpening?

I really do not need to know how to sharpen a blade.

Originally Posted By: Alex
Regarding the environment pollution - every tiny bit adds.

I should have nipped the thread derailment in my previous post. If you wish to continue the environmental discussion, we can do so in a new thread.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#135050 - 06/07/08 01:44 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: nursemike]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: nursemike
Scissors are faster and safer than knives for:

As a point of clarification, are you specifically referring to EMT shears or simply any pair of scissors?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#135051 - 06/07/08 01:59 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
I think that I'm startin' to get another headache!!!
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#135055 - 06/07/08 02:08 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
I think that I'm startin' to get another headache!!!

Was it something from this thread?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#135056 - 06/07/08 02:29 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle

I really do not need to know how to sharpen a blade.

You've got my point. You take for granted that you can always go and buy a new pair of EMT shears, if the blades of your old one are dull. That's cheaper than mastering of a new imperishable skill. I'd call it vicious approach in terms of ETS oriented mindset cool

Quote:

I should have nipped the thread derailment in my previous post. If you wish to continue the environmental discussion, we can do so in a new thread.


Thanks, but nevermind.

P.S.
No offense here, just a little research. You've mentioned once that you consider yourself a geek? "Female geeks rule!" - no doubt! smile I can bet you're using Apple MAC, listening to iPod, and have the iPhone (or at least want to have all of them)? Is that correct? smile


Edited by Alex (06/07/08 02:34 AM)

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#135058 - 06/07/08 02:37 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Alex
P.S.
No offense here, just a little research. You've mentioned once that you consider yourself a geek? "Female geeks rule!" - no doubt! smile I can bet you're using Apple MAC, listening to iPod, and have the iPhone (or at least want to have all of them)? Is that correct? smile

I'm using a Linux machine at the moment but I do own a Mac.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
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#135060 - 06/07/08 02:47 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Oh yeah...
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#135066 - 06/07/08 03:56 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Back on topic. Seriously thinking, my everyday vital tool for the past 6 years is my Palm PDA (Sony TH55). No phone in it because phone function consumes too much power (but I have BT and WiFi on it for emergencies). It holds the charge for ~12 days of typical use. And I have 4 ways of charging it in my EDC vest and 4 additional ways to charge it in my almost EDC messenger bag. The primary function of my PDA is to store important information and software tools.

So, in fact I EDC:
-several hundreds of books always at hands with and without diagrams and images, including work related books, maps of buildings I used to work in, recreational reading, and sure thing survival related materials.
-all my important documents (including credit cards) scanned and stored on PDA, readily available for viewing and printing over BT or WiFi.
-I have very accurate astronomy software and GPS software on it for navigation and trip planning aid.
-translators from several languages.
-several interactive electronic encyclopedias on different subjects (from knots to internal medicine).
-special application for all of security access information I need (online services and resources logins, rooms codes, ID's etc).
-It's my primary contacts/important phones and addresses -book too.
-If I need to capture any new information, I'm using only this PDA to write a hand note/diagram, photograph or videotape an object/label/printed page, record voice note. Later I'm spending some time on compacting and sorting of that information right on PDA screen.

-Also I have a variety of means for automation and software development on it, including PIC programming software, so I can improvise many additional or external functions I might need for rapid prototyping of custom computer controlled electronic devices, which could be useful in survival situations too, but that's a very long topic.

All of that requires only 4GB of storage on T-Flash cards (I have a spare 4GB set in a safe place too, mirrored from the primary set bi-weekly)

And everything in a form factor and weight of a little paper note book (1/2" thick). Yes, I have several ways of physical protection from elements and theft for it depending on situation (not to mention that I have 1 almost identical spare device and 2 spare batteries for it)...

---

P.S.
Thank you, JeanetteIsabelle. I'm not going to comment that any farther. But I tell you a real life story.

A friend of mine, who was very bright unix/linux developer for a long time and now developing MAC OS drivers, asked one of his new highly ranked supervisors: Why there is no the widely available everywhere else feature 'Z' in Leopard? The answer from the Senior Architect was: "Steve said, users don't need that".


Edited by Alex (06/07/08 04:11 AM)

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#135075 - 06/07/08 09:09 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Originally Posted By: Alex
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
Originally Posted By: Alex
dull your skills,

I don't see how.

Example.
How many American people really know how to properly wash dishes clean when camping in the field with no hot water, no soap, no sponges? Typical answer: "Why would I want to wash paper plates and plastic utensils?"

EMT shears example explicitly? Ok. Have you ever considered studying the finest skill of blade sharpening? Or do you know how to cut steel wire with your bare hands (simple physics)? Typical answer: "I don't need that. I have my environment. Granted."...

Regarding the environment pollution - every tiny bit adds.


EMT shears have a serrated blade, and can't be sharpened. They also have a rivited joint - non adjustable. And yeah, I've sharpened scissors. EMT shears are stamped, and are made disposable for a good reason. That EMT part of the name? You're going to be cutting stuff (clothes, bandages etc) that ARE covered in biological materials - blood, puss, vomit, feaces, urine etc. You toss them in the "red bag" when you're done - a LOT easier than taking a pair of scissors apart for sterilization, and then having to re-sharpen right after because the steam and chemicals have dulled the edge
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#135112 - 06/07/08 11:48 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 788
Loc: wellington, fl
I guess I meant the Platonic ideal of scissors. Useful items in all their many forms. Shouldn't run with any of them.

30 years ago, before EMT's were invented, scissors with broad, flattened tip on the lower blade were called Lister Bandage Scissors. Nurses carried them, and they were among the instruments on dressing trays, cuz you can cut dressings without cutting patients with them. Lord Lister, who invented the scissors and initiated the use of phenol (carbolic acid) as a disinfectant (Listerine, these days) died in 1912. Lister Scissors been around for a long time, and, 30 years ago, were precision instruments of surgical steel, with metal screw hinge pins. They could be resharpened and tightened, and had a long useful life. Then health care cost became an issue, and it was discovered that it was cheaper to buy East Asian stainless steel instruments for suture sets and dressing trays, and to use once and discard, than it was to maintain a central sterile receiving facility and resharpen and auticlave the good stuff. Along with that came the EMT scissors, stamped, serrated, $1 apiece (versus $40 for the forged real deal). ER nurses are thrifty sorts; many of us tossed used, cleaned disposable instruments in our lockers at the end of the shift. I had about 30 pounds of stainless discards. The old stuff worked better than the new stuff, but the new stuff is okay, and it is all pretty biodegradeable-eventually it turns back into the iron oxides from which it was made.

DR's debris hut has many rooms, and can accommodate all of us-whether we carry SAK, EMT scissors, or a kukri. Whatever cordage we choose, whatever knots we tie, whatever food we store, we are more alike than different. If I got to choose anyone as a partner in adversity, I would sooner choose any forum member, no matter how much we differ in philosophy, than any non-forum member. Let us be kind to one another, and celebrate the differences, rather than beat each other up. We have to take care of each other-no one else will do it for us.
Kum ba yah, folks.


Edited by nursemike (06/07/08 11:51 PM)
Edit Reason: loss of train of thought-
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#135119 - 06/08/08 01:10 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: nursemike]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3561
Loc: Spring, Texas
Quote:
If I got to choose anyone as a partner in adversity, I would sooner choose any forum member, no matter how much we differ in philosophy, than any non-forum member.


+1000

Knife, scissors, chipped rock. It doesn't matter as long cuts what the owner will likely need cut.

-Blast


Edited by Blast (06/08/08 03:04 AM)
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#135136 - 06/08/08 12:59 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
I don't have EMT shears but I do prefer scissors for a lot of cutting jobs. I currently carry a Vic Rambler which has a small set of nail scissors, which I won't be without because I need them for my nails. It also has a small knife and I find that for opening packages etc the scissors are better.

Speaking of appropriate tools, I find that decent fingernails are invaluable and think it's a waste to gnaw them down to the quick, or to let them grow so long that they become fragile.

I'm currently undecided about pocket pry-bars. I have several and have carried them in the past - generally around 3" long or less. Currently I carry a Leatherman Juice, which I figured was a big and chunky enough piece of metal to do many pry jobs. However, I'm having second thoughts about it. Partly, I admit, because pocket prybars in the Atwood vein are so cute; jewellery for men, really.

I live and work in an urban environment and neither need nor desire a big knife or full-sized scissors. I don't really want to be carrying Rambler and Juice and a prybar as it seems a bit much.
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#135258 - 06/09/08 01:17 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
I have and use EMT shears for EMS work, but for everyday (non-pocket knife use) I prefer Fisker’s gardening shears Fiskars Garden Shears they are sturdy and at least for me cut better then EMT shears on a more varied list of materials. I have found them as cheap as $5 (clearance time) at Target, craft stores, etc and even at full price are only around $8-9.

EDC: SAK and Juice KF4

Pete

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#225728 - 06/11/11 08:38 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Alex
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle

I really do not need to know how to sharpen a blade.

You've got my point. You take for granted that you can always go and buy a new pair of EMT shears, if the blades of your old one are dull. That's cheaper than mastering of a new imperishable skill. I'd call it vicious approach in terms of ETS oriented mindset cool

To this day I have the same pair of EMT sheers I bought at least five years ago. They still do the jobs I need them to do and no, I have not sharpened them. Since one tool is not right for everybody and every situation, is one skill right for everybody and every situation?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#225730 - 06/11/11 11:00 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
bacpacjac Offline
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Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Wow, that got a little intense there. I see the value of both a knife and EMS shears. I love my EMT shears, leatherman and my folder. Though he made me cringe (our code is to be respectful, right?) Alex does have (had?) a good point - learning to sharpen, and take care of our tools - no matter what they are - is a smart move.

BTW - nice to see OBG again. I did a double-take when I saw his name.
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#225733 - 06/11/11 11:27 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: bacpacjac]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
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Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
Alex does have (had?) a good point - learning to sharpen, and take care of our tools - no matter what they are - is a smart move.

Of course I need to take care of my tools. I keep them clean. Do I need to sharpen any of them?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#225734 - 06/11/11 11:44 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
bacpacjac Offline
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Registered: 05/05/07
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Probably not in regular day-to-day life, as long as you have dispoable income to sharpen/replace the sharp ones when they get dull. Knowing how to sharpen them could be indispensible in an extended use situation, especially if finding somewhere to have them sharpened/replaced becomes difficult or impossible.
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#225737 - 06/11/11 11:56 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: bacpacjac]
chaosmagnet Offline
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Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3117
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Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
Probably not in regular day-to-day life, as long as you have dispoable income to replace the sharp ones when they get dull. Knowing how to sharpen them could be indispensible in an extended use situation, especially if replacing them becomes difficult or impossible.


Knives dull as you use them. A dull knife is a dangerous knife. If you don't use knives much I guess you can send them out to be sharpened or replace them, but I prefer to save the money and time by keeping my knives sharp myself.

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#225739 - 06/12/11 12:17 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: bacpacjac]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
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Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
Probably not in regular day-to-day life, as long as you have dispoable income to replace the sharp ones when they get dull. Knowing how to sharpen them could be indispensible in an extended use situation, especially if replacing them becomes difficult or impossible.

I brought this up after years have passed that even with an additional three years, they still do their job. Is having them for five years enough to prove my point or do we need to wait an additional five years?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#225740 - 06/12/11 12:17 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: chaosmagnet]
bacpacjac Offline
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Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
Knives dull as you use them. A dull knife is a dangerous knife. If you don't use knives much I guess you can send them out to be sharpened or replace them, but I prefer to save the money and time by keeping my knives sharp myself.


I totally agree! (I should have said "sharpen or replace".) There are a lot of things that it pays to know how to do yourself.
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#225744 - 06/12/11 01:01 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: bacpacjac]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
There are a lot of things that it pays to know how to do yourself.

Oh, I agree. I'm glad to know to check and replace a vacuum tube, run a number of disk utilities in DOS, configure DOS, build a computer out of junk parts, flash the BIOS, perform a low-level format on an SCSI hard drive. . . .

Jeanette Isabelle
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"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#225745 - 06/12/11 01:07 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
Probably not in regular day-to-day life, as long as you have dispoable income to replace the sharp ones when they get dull. Knowing how to sharpen them could be indispensible in an extended use situation, especially if replacing them becomes difficult or impossible.

I brought this up after years have passed that even with an additional three years, they still do their job. Is having them for five years enough to prove my point or do we need to wait an additional five years?

Jeanette Isabelle



If your point is that in your experience and for your specific needs, EMT shears are a good choice, that point was made three years ago.

The other, equally valid, point from the thread is that nothing lasts for ever and stuff happens to even well cared for and carefully used equipment. Having the skills and means to repair and restore your equipment as it wears or if it gets damaged is one way to mitigate that eventuality. There are several others and individuals will need to pick what works for their circumstances.

Thanks for resurrecting an enlightening discussion - Seeing OBG in a discussion again was a nice surprise.

-Eric
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You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#225747 - 06/12/11 01:22 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Eric]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Eric
If your point is that in your experience and for your specific needs, EMT shears are a good choice, that point was made three years ago.

That point was made three years ago. Time, however, was needed to determine if a certain skill is needed for everyone.

Jeanette Isabelle
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"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#225748 - 06/12/11 01:29 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
dougwalkabout Offline
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Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2747
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Instead of posting a direct reply, I defer to bacpacjac and Eric who have demonstrated outstanding diplomatic prowess today.

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#225750 - 06/12/11 01:47 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
Originally Posted By: Eric
If your point is that in your experience and for your specific needs, EMT shears are a good choice, that point was made three years ago.

That point was made three years ago. Time, however, was needed to determine if a certain skill is needed for everyone.

Jeanette Isabelle


For the second point you're are addressing, time (at least at a human scale) doesn't meaningfully help in the determination since the sample size is a single unit - your personal EMT shears. I have a 30 year old knife that works great and hasn't been sharpened since I got it. I also have a 3 month old knife that has been sharpened three times. No meaningful conclusions can be drawn from either or both of those samples.

It is impractical for a single person to try to master all the available and potentially useful skills that humanity has identified and refined over the years. We live in communities for a reason.

Based on the above I'd say your second point was also made (or should have been obvious to the proverbial "casual observer") three years ago.

That does not invalidate key point I think people were driving at. You need to have a plan that works for you on the day your shears are no longer meeting your needs since nothing material lasts forever.

Having said the above - I'll fess up that I am terrible at tasks that require fine motor skills (like knife sharpening) but have gotten, uhm ... competent(?) at the ones I find important by leveraging tools and technology but everyone needs to chart their own course.

-Eric


Edited by Eric (06/12/11 01:47 AM)
Edit Reason: grammar
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#225751 - 06/12/11 02:21 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Eric]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
To be honest, I am not sure if this is a valid point but it is worth acknowledging nonetheless. That said, to the best of my knowledge, a disposable tool cannot be maintained other than cleaned. Therefore, the knowhow to sharpen a blade is as useful to me as checking and replacing a vacuum tube would be to someone else.

Jeanette Isabelle
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#225754 - 06/12/11 04:11 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2747
Loc: Alberta, Canada
This recent flurry of posts introduces a stale whiff of 'troll' into the room. Increasingly tiresome.

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#225761 - 06/12/11 01:54 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
Jeanette Isabelle,

I think we miscommunicated a round back. I am not saying you or anyone needs to know how to sharpen a blade. I am saying that if you have and use tools you need to recognize that stuff happens to tools and you need to know your personal "what next". In todays world, pitch and replace is a very valid and even economical strategy, just look at the loss of repair shops in the USA in general over the last 50 yrs.

If you choose a use and dispose strategy, your plans may need to include additional backups or at least a good way to rapidly replace the damaged items. Of course mend/sharpen/repair isn't a guarantee either since the tools needed for the repair must be at hand when the "unforeseen" happens.

My personal example is utility knife blades - there is no way I would try to rehabilitate them. For me these are cheap disposable items and I keep a pretty decent supply on hand so I have them when I need them. A good friend "recycles" his blades by resharpening them between tasks.

There is seldom one right answer - just what works for an individual.

- Eric
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#225763 - 06/12/11 02:08 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Eric]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6854
Loc: southern Cal
Definitely, our discussions here on ETS are right on the cutting edge.
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#225768 - 06/12/11 03:59 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
mpb
Unregistered


Over the past 40 or so years of living in the woods
(and of the land), I have used only one kind of pocket knifes:
Swiss Army!
Various Victorinox modles until the Backpacker lock blade made its apperance.
This, and a Wenger Ranger. are the two most vertisile knifes ever made!
I just happen to use the Victorinox bec. Wenger's was not availabe in my area back then.

Keep it sharp!

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#225769 - 06/12/11 04:02 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: hikermor]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
I have been working sooo hard to avoid that particular pun!! Well played!

-Eric
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You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#225770 - 06/12/11 05:01 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: dougwalkabout]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
This recent flurry of posts introduces a stale whiff of 'troll' into the room. Increasingly tiresome.

What do you mean?

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#226718 - 06/26/11 07:19 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Alex
How many American people really know how to properly wash dishes clean when camping in the field with no hot water, no soap, no sponges? Typical answer: "Why would I want to wash paper plates and plastic utensils?"

I did not give this much thought at the time you asked but recently I have been wondering about this. How does one wash the dishes when away from civilization?

This question is open to anyone to answer.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#226722 - 06/26/11 07:56 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3117
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
I did not give this much thought at the time you asked but recently I have been wondering about this. How does one wash the dishes when away from civilization?


With no hot water, soap or tools, use lots of water and clean sand, by preference for scrubbing.

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#226731 - 06/26/11 09:56 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Eastree Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 62
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
I did not give this much thought at the time you asked but recently I have been wondering about this. How does one wash the dishes when away from civilization?

This question is open to anyone to answer.

Jeanette Isabelle


One method is to use the lye present in the ashes of many hardwood trees to saponify (residual) oils in your cooking pot. It doesn't need to be a precise blend; simply mix some water, ashes, and oil into a paste and use that to scrub. It's not as harsh a scouring powder as sand or salt, and won't scratch the metal, which can make everything stick.

Also deglazing a still hot pot or pan with cool liquid is not only a great way to free cooked on bits, but add a flour slurry and you've made gravy!


Edited by Eastree (06/26/11 09:57 PM)

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#226736 - 06/26/11 10:37 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1389
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
Originally Posted By: Alex
How many American people really know how to properly wash dishes clean when camping in the field with no hot water, no soap, no sponges? Typical answer: "Why would I want to wash paper plates and plastic utensils?"

I did not give this much thought at the time you asked but recently I have been wondering about this. How does one wash the dishes when away from civilization?

This question is open to anyone to answer.

Jeanette Isabelle


It depends on your definition of "away from civilzation."

Are you out for a few days or a couple of weeks hiking trip? Carry a small bottle of dish detergent. The travel size (2 oz) bottles of shampoo are available from almost any drugstore for around a dollar or so. Once you have emptied the shampoo, fill the fill the bottle with dish detergent. Used in small judicious amounts, this bottle will last quite a while.

There are other methods of cleaning pots and dishes such as using sand, ashes etc. However getting them completely clean of food containaments is vital as there is nothing worse then getting a severe case of the trots 20 miles from home because of food posioning. One thing to keep in mind also, food poisoning can develop in as little as a few hours to a few days after intial contact. This would not bode well if you are 3 days into a hike with no methods of rescue. Attempting to walk out in such as weakened state could be life threatening in it's own right.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#226748 - 06/27/11 12:32 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3561
Loc: Spring, Texas
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
Originally Posted By: Alex
How many American people really know how to properly wash dishes clean when camping in the field with no hot water, no soap, no sponges? Typical answer: "Why would I want to wash paper plates and plastic utensils?"

I did not give this much thought at the time you asked but recently I have been wondering about this. How does one wash the dishes when away from civilization?

This question is open to anyone to answer.

Jeanette Isabelle


I use the Three Tub method. First tub holds hot, soapy water. Second holds warm rinse water, third holds bleach sterilizing solution of 1 teaspoon bleach per two gallons water.

-Blast
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Blogging the Borderlands
Wild Edibles Blog
I miss OBG.

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#226757 - 06/27/11 03:19 AM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
My cavalier answer is lick my plate clean.

But more to the point, if we don't have water we have a problem. Water is always a consideration for us, selecting a good spot long enough to cook a meal that needs clean up.

Perfect world/planning: 3 tub method.
Usual multi-day trip: Dr. Bonners, boiled water, rag.
In a pinch: sand scrub and swirl some water around with fingers to clean out.

To my folly perhaps, I rely a lot on sunlight to sanitize my cook/drink wares between eating. I've always believed and not suffered for it yet, that if I modestly clean a cup, plate, bowl or pot and let the suns UV rays on it for a bit, I'll be good to go. I try to be as neat as possible with my cooking/eating gear anyway so maybe its just hoping it works.
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.

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#290586 - 09/17/18 05:13 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Alex]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2023
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Alex
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle

I really do not need to know how to sharpen a blade.

You've got my point. You take for granted that you can always go and buy a new pair of EMT shears, if the blades of your old one are dull. That's cheaper than mastering of a new imperishable skill. I'd call it vicious approach in terms of ETS oriented mindset cool

It's been more than ten years. They are still sharp.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#290587 - 09/17/18 07:28 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6854
Loc: southern Cal
Old threads never die, thy just fade away...(and possibly dull with the passage of time).
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Geezer in Chief

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#292555 - 06/24/19 09:32 PM Re: Tool of Choice [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
willpo Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/24/19
Posts: 15
I favor an old hickory paring knife $6 at wally's. I can get a skinning/butchering edge back on it in 20 seconds, if I havent hit a bone. If I have hit a bone, it might take a full minute. ;-)

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