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#129212 - 04/03/08 05:02 PM Re: A different kind of survival vest [Re: benjammin]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: benjammin
Now the question is, where will I find a place in central Florida cold enough to test them both?


If you were in NYC, I'd send you into a "Western Beef," which is a grocery chain. Each one has a refriegerated section that you walk into with the shopping cart. Something like that or any meat locker should do the trick. Maybe you should make friends with a butcher.

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#129216 - 04/03/08 05:11 PM Re: A different kind of survival vest [Re: Dan_McI]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Say, that gives me an idea. Costco has a walk in chiller for it's produce section. I wonder if they'd think me peculiar were I to stroll in with the vest and a garbage bag and proceed to don and doff them in succession.

_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#129218 - 04/03/08 05:17 PM Re: A different kind of survival vest [Re: benjammin]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
The tester, in my opinion did not test the vest as stand-alone survival garment and changed the parameters by placing his coat over the vest. If used in combination with an over-garment, then yes it should increase the insulation value of either the vest or coat by itself. I would like to see if he still felt it worked without his overcoat. It is unclear to me what “I hung around in the woods for awhile” means in terms of real time and would like to see a timed study with thermal imaging and/or temperature probes while standing, sitting or laying around for a significant period of time (spend the night out), as one might encounter during a real survival situation. This product may in fact work and be a valuable asset; I just do not see the testing/data to support the claims.

Pete

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#129219 - 04/03/08 05:29 PM Re: A different kind of survival vest [Re: Dan_McI]
Matt26 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 309
Loc: Vermont
Ever wear a float coat? It's a windbreaker built around a pfd. During our annual ice rescue classes this Jan I was wearing one on the quite windy shores of Lake Champlain and was the warmest I have ever been on the ice!
_________________________
If it ain't bleeding, it doesn't hurt.

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#129222 - 04/03/08 05:46 PM Re: A different kind of survival vest [Re: Matt26]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
A float coat is specifically designed not only to provide flotation but also thermal protection. An ice rescue suit provides even more thermal protection as one would expect. I took my Ice Rescue Instructor class in Georgetown, Colorado a couple of years ago in the month of February and despite the wind and sub-freezing temperatures, I was quite warm in my Mustang Ice Rescue Commander suit for the 8 hours plus we were out on the ice. In one of the scenarios, I was in the water for 30 minutes before I even began to feel the cold and could have easily lasted for another 1 hour plus.

Pete

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#129228 - 04/03/08 06:33 PM Re: A different kind of survival vest [Re: paramedicpete]
Paragon Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 231
Loc: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
The tester, in my opinion did not test the vest as stand-alone survival garment and changed the parameters by placing his coat over the vest. If used in combination with an over-garment, then yes it should increase the insulation value of either the vest or coat by itself. I would like to see if he still felt it worked without his overcoat.

The instructions on the packaging state "For maximum warmth wear AeroVest on top of your shirt and under your jacket. Inflate after your jacket is on."

I can't really envision a realistic scenario where you would require an AeroVest and wouldn't already have a jacket or waterproof shell on.

Jim
_________________________
My EDC and FAK


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#129235 - 04/03/08 07:30 PM Re: A different kind of survival vest [Re: Paragon]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
If you go to the web site benjammin listed in his first post or the AeroVest site, you will see all of the users are weaning the vest without a jacket. Now I realize this is primarily for sales reasons, but still in my humble opinion somewhat misleading.

I can think of a several scenarios (our team has rescued dozen of people without jackets) where one is without a useable outer jacket (not smart but still the reality). How many times have we discussed someone or groups of people just going out for a day’s hike, it’s warm, so they did not bring along a jacket. The weather changes or they get caught spending the night in the woods without proper clothing. Perhaps they did wear or bring a jacket (likely cotton or lightweight nylon) and got it wet, the insulating properties are lost or worse are resulting in additional heat loss due to convection. The question remains, is this vest effective as a stand-alone piece of equipment or not?

A heatsheet will provide greater body surface coverage, better convection heat loss protection, is much cheaper and packs down to the same small size. You can place a slit in the heatsheet and use it as poncho, use it as blanket, wind-block, a heat reflector, vapor barrier, lean-to or A-frame shelter just a much more versatile piece of equipment.

Pete

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#129236 - 04/03/08 07:37 PM Re: A different kind of survival vest [Re: paramedicpete]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Yesterday an aquaintance warned me to never use a space blanket because they go up in flames like they're made of gasoline if a fire or spark hits them...I can't confirm that but it seems dangerous...and if it's true, you definately want to wear it UNDER your jacket.

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#129238 - 04/03/08 07:53 PM Re: A different kind of survival vest [Re: ]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Very real possibility, as almost any synthetic will burn/melt. Caution around fire is always warranted, regardless of what one is wearning.

Pete

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#129239 - 04/03/08 08:07 PM Re: A different kind of survival vest [Re: paramedicpete]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
Very real possibility, as almost any synthetic will burn/melt. Caution around fire is always warranted, regardless of what one is wearning.

Pete


Caution with fire is always wise, but with synthetics it becomes more important. Most synthetics originate with petrochemicals, hence a tendency to burn and/or melt. However, it is tough to beat them in terms of weight to the amount of insulation they can provide. It's one of the tradeoffs you need to consider when picking your clothes and gear.

My bet is that few go outside for very long without synthetics. Imagine going camping with no synthetics; no synthetic tent material - canvas, a canvas pack, wool or cotton or leather clothing, silk or cotton underwear, wool blankets, no paracord - marline or manilla, etc.


Edited by Dan_McI (04/03/08 08:08 PM)

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