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#125475 - 02/27/08 07:47 PM Re: Gasoline Costs: Buy a New Car or Not? [Re: MartinFocazio]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
I won't try to sell you a Prius Martin (disclosure: I have two) but you might re-jigger some of your costs if you consider a hybrid vehicle. Such as maintenance - first year maintenance costs on my 2007 Prius were zero, because the basics (oil and fluid changes) are covered by the dealer. A fresh cabin air filter is $15 from the Internet or $4 cut from a whole house HEPA filter (your choice). fwiw the Prius has been mighty light on the mechanical upkeep (new 12V battery on the older 2002 in 2006, $100). Also for hybrids in particular you can factor in a federal tax rebate of some amount, depending on the sales figures for the car that year, at the time you bought it. For my first Prius I receive a $2k rebate, for this one I expect something more like $785. There could be some equivalent tax reduction at the state level as well. And there's no annual inspection for the Prius (in Washington State), if you mean emissions testing, which is waived for hybrids.

Anyway, whether to buy new or repair old can be pretty complex, even before you take into account what you want/need/desire - just an observation on costs. I still maintain buying a car is the worst investment most of us ever make, no matter what we get.

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#125476 - 02/27/08 07:49 PM Re: Gasoline Costs: Buy a New Car or Not? [Re: MartinFocazio]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


You can get good mileage and still have 4wd. The Jeep Compass, Subaru Forester and Honda Element all get great mileage for a truck or SUV. I drove my Compass from Edmonton to San Francisco last October with the wife. Fuel and a mid trip oil change cost less than flying by a surprising margin.

And if you get the Forester with a turbo it has the best 0-60 time of any SUV...wahoo!

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#125483 - 02/27/08 08:21 PM Re: Gasoline Costs: Buy a New Car or Not? [Re: MartinFocazio]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
First thing I wanted to mention, is that I try to avoid buying a completely new vehicle if I can. My '07 Envoy Denali I bought for less than $30,000 with 1,700 miles on it. Brand new, it would have been over $42,000. I saved $12,000 just by buying slightly used, and I still got most of the warranty. Sure, deals like that are tough to find, but there are so many nearly perfect slightly used vehicles out there, that most of the time it just isn't worth it to buy brand new. Often you can find one or two year lease returns with very low mileage. This is where being friends with a good used car dealer can come in handy.

Next, one of the best things about newer cars is the comprehensive warranty. I love having a warranty. Anything goes wrong and the dealer fixes it. For me, that's worth having a newer vehicle as my daily driver. Especially now that vehicles in general are very complicated and expensive to fix.

Finally, I don't like vehicles that start to give me trouble or that have knowingly been in some kind of crash. Therefore, if I have a vehicle with a problem I can't fix on my own, that leaves me stranded more than three times; or is involved in a crash (which, even after being fixed, can still have hidden structural problems), I get rid of it.

It's not worth it to me to hang onto something that I have doubts about. Not for a daily driver. In my experience, when you need it most, is when it's going to conk out on you. For me, reliability and dependability is worth paying a bit extra.


My advice, search around. If you don't think you need it right now, at least keep an eye out for a good deal. See what things go for, research the vehicles you like, and then if you see something that seems like a solid deal, go for it. Don't wait too long though, the worst thing to do is wait until your vehicle dies, and then go searching around because you need a vehicle ASAP. When you don't need it, it's a lot easier to make a well thought out decision and do better research. Good Luck with whatever you choose to do!


Originally Posted By: Hacksaw

And if you get the Forester with a turbo it has the best 0-60 time of any SUV...wahoo!


That's not true. It's quick, but not that quick. smile


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#125489 - 02/27/08 08:47 PM Re: Gasoline Costs: Buy a New Car or Not? [Re: Paul810]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


You're right...I should have said 'of any reasonably priced SUV'. I don't generally consider SUVs like the Cayenne, Inifinti FX45 or the SRT Cherokee to be SUVs in the same way.

It's still under 6 seconds and there aren't very many SUVs at any price that can beat that.

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#125491 - 02/27/08 10:12 PM Re: Gasoline Costs: Buy a New Car or Not? [Re: ]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: Hacksaw
You're right...I should have said 'of any reasonably priced SUV'. I don't generally consider SUVs like the Cayenne, Inifinti FX45 or the SRT Cherokee to be SUVs in the same way.

It's still under 6 seconds and there aren't very many SUVs at any price that can beat that.


Just making sure you weren't putting the wrong info out there. wink

There were, and are, quite a few SUVs as fast or faster; such as those you mentioned, as well as a few Mercedes AMG models, GMC Typhoon, and possibly Trailblazer SS. Quickest 0-60 and "quickest 0-60 in it's price range" are two entirely different animals.

You're right though, it is smoking fast for what it costs. That engine also has plenty of modifications availible to make it even faster, if you're a speed-freak like me. whistle

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#125497 - 02/27/08 11:11 PM Re: Gasoline Costs: Buy a New Car or Not? [Re: Paul810]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
Martin,

Remember that the kids are not bonsai...they will grow and need room. Two kids and a child seat in the middle of the back is going to be an interesting trick. The Mazda5 may not be a bad idea. I have no affiliation with Mazda in any way.....Just another thing to stir the pot.

MoBOB
_________________________
"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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#125499 - 02/27/08 11:56 PM Re: Gasoline Costs: Buy a New Car or Not? [Re: MoBOB]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
If you're into Hybrids and want something about the same size as your Cherokee, check out the Ford Escape Hybrid/Mercury Mariner Hybrid/Mazda Tribute. ~30mpg city and highway, plenty of interior room for you and the kids, a basic AWD setup (not quite as off-road worthy as a Jeep, but more-so than a Prius), and doesn't cost much more than a Prius.

Here's one messing around off-road:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1iHGwj7MUA


Just a thought, but it sounds like it would be perfect for you.


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#125503 - 02/28/08 12:35 AM Re: Gasoline Costs: Buy a New Car or Not? [Re: MartinFocazio]
Andy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 378
Loc: SE PA
Martin,

I look at the cost of transportation as just that, a cost. I plan around that expense and adjust as income and other expenses change.

I gave up buying cars about 20 years ago. After running a number of cars into the ground (10 years, 100K or more miles) I decided the hassle of the unexpected breakdowns, maintenance and repair and towing bills wasn't worth it.

I've been leasing my cars since 1989. I know what my costs are going to be, generally all repairs are covered by the warranty, I get free roadside service for as long as I use the car, I don't worry about one of us getting stranded when the timing belt breaks, and I get more car for the dollar. I deal with one dealer and after 6 cars with her I get the best rates and usually save $8-10K over sticker.

To buy the same car as I lease would nearly double my payments and after 4 or 5 years I've got a car that isn't worth of what I would pay in lease costs. Ain't no equity in cars.

I did buy a used car for daughter a few years ago that, even after some serious pre-deal checking, has cost me as much in repairs and upkeep as I paid for the car.

Downside to leasing in PA is the 9% sales tax, thanks Ed. (Gov. Ed Rendell).

By the way, your cost difference works out to less than $5 a day. Is the comfort and security of new car worth that?
_________________________
In a crisis one does not rise to one's level of expectations but rather falls to one's level of training.

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#125512 - 02/28/08 01:19 AM Re: Gasoline Costs: Buy a New Car or Not? [Re: Andy]
digimark Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 70
Loc: Chesapeake Beach, MD
To add my $.03 (inflation)...

While you're considering a new car, you might want to consider diesel. My diesel SUV gets 21/27 real world, and 31 mpg nursed on the highway during a recent trip, and 600-700 miles per tank. That's a lot of bug-out idling and road time when needed, and until late last year diesel was cheaper than regular unleaded. Of course now the price per gallon has zoomed up there, but it won't stay that way relative to the price of gasoline for long. And an added boon is that it has less and less onerous emissions than a gasoline engine with the new ultra-low sulfur diesel and diesel engines have tons of torque -- great for pulling things.


Edited by digimark (02/28/08 01:19 AM)

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#125517 - 02/28/08 01:49 AM Re: Gasoline Costs: Buy a New Car or Not? [Re: Andy]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Bucks County PA
Leasing isn't really an option, because the new vehicle will go to my wife, and I just looked over HER monthly mileage, and it's WAY higher than the mileage allowance for a lease.

I also live in a place where not having a vehicle simply isn't an option.

I re-ran some numbers (see the Google Spreadsheet here:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pe_B8vgjx0mQTNyioMLMZfw&hl=en

..and I've decided to run the old Jeep into the ground, and then I'm going to buy something new for my wife. Nothing but fluids and minor repairs from now on - if a strut goes, the Jeep goes.
I didn't realize there's a LOT of 0% financing deals out there, so I'll do a 0% 36 month deal when it's time.

Funny thing is that I'll be getting the old Ford Windstar and my wife will get the newest vehicle.

Looking at a Honda Odyssey or Toyota Sienna. 3 Kids - need the 3-row seating of the minivan. I'll never buy a Ford again, and I don't ever go off-road anymore, and I've found just about ANY Front-Wheel drive vehicle is fine in the snow.

What I'd really like is a Subaru Forrester 2.5 XT, but it won't haul the family. The tribeca has more room, but crap mileage.

OY. I absolutely HATE this process - that's why it's been over 10 years since we bought a new vehicle. I can't stand the darn things.



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